Wigan

[Craig_H]

Nah. I don't have entrenched positions on things and try and call things as I see them, but no, you must have me confused with someone else. Never really been on his case.

Also liked Finnan but his attacking limitations at times did frustrate.

Nicol was also a good shout. I remember his awesome hat-trick at Newcastle.

Awesome is the word I remember they were crowing about Mirindinha at the time Went up there and stuffed them 4-1, with our FULLBACK notching three That's how ****ing immense we were in those days

[Lecter]

Which is exactly why you're on Johnson's back, because you only remember the recent stuff - and recently, he's been woefully out of form and dreadful.

Dont ****ing talk daft

Didnt rate him last year at all defensively

Dont rate him now defensively

The fact that last year he was good going forward and this year hes been ****ing ****e going forward has no bearing on him as a defender

He was woeful at defending at Portsmouth and hes woeful at defending at Liverpool

Sorry but that is how I feel and frankly I dont give a **** about him playing for England, as I said earlier there isnt a decent rightback out there and hes the best of a very bad bunch

Sorry dont rate the lad at all you can talk to me until your blue in the face, hes the Riise of our rightback position

Oh yes the same Riise who is a regular for Norway at fullback

[Craig_H]

Dont ****ing talk daft

Didnt rate him last year at all defensively

Dont rate him now defensively

The fact that last year he was good going forward and this year hes been ****ing ****e going forward has no bearing on him as a defender

He was woeful at defending at Portsmouth and hes woeful at defending at Liverpool

Sorry but that is how I feel and frankly I dont give a **** about him playing for England, as I said earlier there isnt a decent rightback out there and hes the best of a very bad bunch

Sorry dont rate the lad at all you can talk to me until your blue in the face, hes the Riise of our rightback position

Oh yes the same Riise who is a regular for Norway at fullback

It's fine that you dont rate him, but dont talk about last year, because by your own admission, you struggle to remember last week

[Lecter]

So you've been able to point to two examples of such players, in 20 years.

Perhaps they're not exactly ten a penny, but actually quite hard to find.

Dont be a ****ing tart

I also said I'd prefer Arbeloa over Johnson (in terms of the whole package) and I'd also say Kelly could add the same sort of balance (as a package)

Oh and if you want another who could both attack and defend I'll throw in Rob Jones for you as well

The fact that I highlighted Nicol & Babbel as masters of what a total fullback should be doesnt mean I dont rate others

[Lecter]

It's fine that you dont rate him, but dont talk about last year, because by your own admission, you struggle to remember last week

No I struggle to remember individual games and incidents

But thanks anyway for trying

[Shaggy]

He's totally different to Riise, and miles, miles better than him.

[Craig_H]

Dont be a ****ing tart

I also said I'd prefer Arbeloa over Johnson (in terms of the whole package) and I'd also say Kelly could add the same sort of balance (as a package)

Oh and if you want another who could both attack and defend I'll throw in Rob Jones for you as well

The fact that I highlighted Nicol & Babbel as masters of what a total fullback should be doesnt mean I dont rate others

My point was though, that such fullbacks who strike the balance so well, are notoriously hard to find. Even harder to sign.

You'd do well to list 5 of them in the world now.

I too rated Arbeloa and ideally, we'd have both him AND GJ, in order to use them correctly in the games they'd each be most suited for.

[Lecter]

He's totally different to Riise, and miles, miles better than him.

In terms of defending hes no different to Riise

[red g]

Steve Nicol was class, massively underrated !

remember when he played upfront for a few games? seem to recall a hat trick against newcastle

[red g]

In terms of defending hes no different to Riise

yes but early riser scored plenty of goals so always made up for deficiencies.

Late riser didn't and was a liabilty as he still thought he could shoot!

[wiw]

Re Johnson - I'd say our ability (or lack of) keeping the ball in the oppositions half has contributed to him getting caught out of position as much as anything

[wiw]

In terms of defending hes no different to Riise

We broke club defensive records with Riise in the team didn't we? (clean sheets was it?)

[Lecter]

My point was though, that such fullbacks who strike the balance so well, are notoriously hard to find. Even harder to sign.

You'd do well to list 5 of them in the world now.

I too rated Arbeloa and ideally, we'd have both him AND GJ, in order to use them correctly in the games they'd each be most suited for.

Thats all well and good but the argument isnt how many of those fullbacks are available the argument is about Johnsons ability or lack thereof to defend

[Lecter]

We broke club defensive records with Riise in the team didn't we? (clean sheets was it?)

Come now

We broke defensive records with Alan Kennedy at leftback and he was hardly a great defensive player either

We also won league titles with Joey Jones, Barry Venison, Gary Ablett, Kevin MacDonald doesnt mean they are good players either

[Craig_H]

Thats all well and good but the argument isnt how many of those fullbacks are available the argument is about Johnsons ability or lack thereof to defend

Well as i said, you either take a defensive fullback who gives next to nothing going forward - and then we whinge about having no width and struggling to break teams down. Or we have a Johnson, who gives a lot going forward, with width and creativity, but isnt the most solid at the back.

You pick one of those, or you manage to find one of the rare examples who can do both, and pay probably £30m or so, to sign him.