Gerrard a must or not?

[wildman]

is the right answer (as long as youre about 20 yrs old)...

The point is, that as Gerrard starts the slow decline (2 top yrs left with his high octane style at best) we have to manage that and make sure the team (results) dont suffer. This means that he's no longer given the roy of the rovers 'everything through stevie' role. as the whole team (results) will suffer because of it.

So, like my name-sake, putting him into CM to pull the strings when he's not the brightest of footballers isnt, imho, the right thing to do. he should stay where he is and work on his skill. or the more controversial, play less often...

so what do we do?

i would say his high octane best ran out about 18 months ago

[Exiled_red]

He should play off Torres in the 4-2-3-1 formation we used to use, unfortunately Roy won't use that so we're likely to see him break up the Lucas Meireles partnership that has worked well for us.

[Imy]

He should play off Torres in the 4-2-3-1 formation we used to use, unfortunately Roy won't use that so we're likely to see him break up the Lucas Meireles partnership that has worked well for us.

How many goals has Gerrard scored in the last few years when he was playing off Torres? compare that with how many he/the team have scored this season with him in central midfield in a 4-4-2?

He is most effective further up the field, Gerrrard, the tabloids and Sky should just deal with it.

[Fierce]

**** thread, 'qualified' with nonsense statistics

[Exiled_red]

How many goals has Gerrard scored in the last few years when he was playing off Torres? compare that with how many he/the team have scored this season with him in central midfield in a 4-4-2?

He is most effective further up the field, Gerrrard, the tabloids and Sky should just deal with it.

I just wish we had a manager who would accept it!

[Tee]

I just wish we had a manager who would accept it!

Predictable I know, but.. we did.

[dww]

I just wish we had a manager who would accept it!

The thing is that in Roys tactics he's also wasted in the more attacking positions. Even with Cole or Gerrard in the front two positions Roy has clearly instructed them to occupy the sort of positions central strikers usually do (particularly without the ball). It seems a complete waste to me, but there you go.

[Exiled_red]

The thing is that in Roys tactics he's also wasted in the more attacking positions. Even with Cole or Gerrard in the front two positions Roy has clearly instructed them to occupy the sort of positions central strikers usually do (particularly without the ball). It seems a complete waste to me, but there you go.

True

We need rid of Hodgson

[saj]

He is an excellent player but we can cope without him and has been able to do that the last few years. The statistics show that. He isn't a must on the pitch.

So you're saying he's an excellent player - so why do you think he shouldn't be playing for LFC other than those misleading statistics?

And before you ask why those stats are misleading, consider the following:

- they are an average. He has played far more games than he has missed therefore this is not valid enough. i.e. if he played 37 games in a season we would not win them all therefore the win rate with Gerrard would be less than 100%. But if we won the 1 game he missed, then the stats would state that we have a 100% win rate without him

- do the stats consider the level of opposition?

- do the stats take into consideration the starting lineups he played in i.e. the lineup could have been very weak due to injuries?


Did you know in Ryan Babel's first season, when he was on the pitch we conceded less goals, scored more goals and had more attempts on goal. Does that mean he's great defensively - NO as he mostly played against crap opposition and also came off the bench late in games when teams are less likely to score. Does that mean he's a great attacker - NO. Stats are completely useless unless you analyse them with reality. You can manipulate stats to make someone look like a hero or like a turd as I have shown above with the Babel example and how you have made Gerrard look surplus to requirements with your analysis.

Who so you think should step up instead of Gerrard and play week in week out: Meireles? if the answer to that is yes then you need a reality check. He looked good against West Ham and Villa as they were not very physical. But where was he against Newcastle? And if you're talking about stats, Gerrard scored 2 goals against Newcastle the last time we played them in this fixture and in total we got 5. How many goals did we score without Gerrard against Newcastle?

[Craig_H]

Arn's love of stats is misguiding things a little, IMO.

Basically, where we've done poorly with him in the side, he hasnt been the reason for us doing poorly - as Arn seems to be trying to suggest.

I'd be confident in saying that if we had MORE players like Steven Gerrard playing for us in those games, we'd have had a far better chance of getting much more positive results.

Anyone disputing that, probably needs to give up on football and watch hurling instead.

[Robbie-fowler999]

Another **** thread

[Mattshark]

**** thread, 'qualified' with nonsense statistics

It is not that the stats are nonsense, just misrepresented in this case. They don't back up Arn's claim.

[CJ]

i still think he should be here but the time is approaching for him to either change his game or he will feature less and less.

top clubs and top managers actually move players on around this time as they get money and invest it. They dont always as maybe the player will develop into something else or they are important for some other reason.

[saj]

One othert thing Arn. If you want to use stats then do a stats analysis of Rafa so far this season. The results would contradict everything you argued in the Rafa watch thread.

[Buzzo]

What a load of **** those stats are.

The stats on there own count for nothing. For example we do not know how these stats compare against other players. You would also have to take into account the quality of opposition faced in those games with and without him.

For example one year the games you say he didn't play are Blackburn (H) 1-0
Fulham (A) 0-2
Charlton (A) 0-2
West Bromwich (A) 2-0
Blackburn (A) 1-0
West Ham (A) 2-1
of which we won 4 and drew 2. But 6 (at the time!!!) fairly easy games. These stats are compared against the amount of games Gerrard did play (which would include Man U, Chelsea etc) so not really accurate.

But mainly you have to open your eyes and watch almost every game we have played over the last few years. With or without stats Steven Gerrard is one of the best player we have. If not the best.

The only person I have ever read who utilises stats well in his writing is Paul Tomkins.