Chelsea vs Liverpool Post Match Thread

[Neil Young]

Distinguish his game with Agger's for example. Agger seem to always have time on the ball, doesn't rush to get rid of it, passes back then moves into space asking for it again, things we never see with Carra. I'm not criticising him, but he can't pass for the life of him and doesn't seem to have confidence in his capabilities to do so as well.

D'uh , yeah, now you mention it...

With Nigey around, every day is State The Bleeding Obvious Day.

[Fredo]

Carra's been brought up with Houllier's idea of 'verticalising' the game. It wouldn't surprise me if it was taught in him to do just that.

[dww]

Carra's been brought up with Houllier's idea of 'verticalising' the game. It wouldn't surprise me if it was taught in him to do just that.

What was Houlliers concept of 'verticalising' - is this a genuine term or a mocking one?

[Neil Young]

I wish Nigel would be verticalised off the site.

[Fredo]

What was Houlliers concept of 'verticalising' - is this a genuine term or a mocking one?

I remember seeing one of his interviews on Canal + (can't remember when, might have been around 10-12 years ago), where he stated his beliefs about the 'modern' game and how he viewed it should be played. He talked a lot about verticalising it. I'll try to see if there's something in French somewhere. I haven't made up anything.

[Neil Young]

I'm sorry Nige, I withdraw my previous statement.

[Fredo]

Found something here it's in French though.

He says this.

uefa.com : De quelle manière décririez-vous votre approche du rôle de l'entraîneur ?

Gérard Houllier : Ma philosophie se base sur la technique et le mouvement. Tout part de l'arrière. En football, nous voulons toujours aller rapidement de l'avant, mais tout part de l'arrière. Je n'aime pas jouer de longs ballons. Les passes et le mouvement démarrent de derrière. Certains aiment les ailiers, certains aiment les grands avant-centres. J'aime beaucoup la créativité et la technique.

I've italicised where he talks about playing it 'forward quickly', but to be fair to him he does state that he doesn't like playing long balls.

[Fredo]

I'm sorry Nige, I withdraw my previous statement.

[red g]

It doesn't matter that there are 14 nationalities, he claims, for they are all united under one vision: `Le jeu vers l'avant' - loosely translated as `go for goal'.

When describing his philosophy, the cool and urbane sophisticate suddenly becomes animated, metamorphosing into a passionate, gesticulatin

"I like to `verticalise' the game. I don't mean the long ball. Look at our first goal in the friendly at Blackburn. Hyppia has the ball, right through to Camara, flicks it through to Fowler - goal."

He is now waving his arms around excitedly. "Then at Sheffield Wednesday last week. Redknapp through to Fowler, Fowler strikes - goal. I prefer to go ping, ping, ping, ping, goal.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Football%3A+Fowler+the+Scallywag+will+be+my+Eric+Cantona%3B+EXCLUSIVE%3A...-a060240804

[red g]

Interview with Gerard Houllier during the Autumn of 1999...



"But, here, you cannot reach places or win trophies without a certain way of doing it. Because of the tradition, because of the culture of the football that was on the field here for years and years, with the good teams, with Keegan and Dalglish and all those players, it was different from the other football of other clubs. Here, you have got to play a certain type of football. I knew that when I came as a supporter, but even more as a manager in France and as a technical director I would watch Liverpool and the way they would play. I don't think you could play the Wimbledon type of football here. Suppose I would come here and say: 'Well, this is the quickest way to get from box to box, let's do that.' Well, it wouldn't work. And that's not just because of the players. Football is more than just eleven players; it's an environment, it's a context and they have had so much of the good football practice in the successful years that you could not break away from that.

Even now I am trying to break away from the passing: well, not from the passing, because I like passing. But I want to pass forward, God, yeah. They like to pass the ball. Two years ago Liverpool made more passes than any other team, they were the best passing team in the Premiership. But to me that doesn't mean anything. you can be the best passing team and win nothing. You have to verticalize, and to go deeper with passes. The passing, like a bond, was more, 'Let's keep our hands like that', but I think we have to be more provocative than that, and go forward.

These fans have been to matches for 20 or 35 years. They have been to many games. They know the type of football that was developed here. They've kept that in mind. They know more when the team is playing well. You cannot win without a bit of 'the manner' here. You can't win without entertaining here. It's my philosophy, but I think it's even more here. They like winning, but they like winning in the way they want to win. It's got to be a good, entertaining and fascinating way of playing it. That's important. We can win one-nil and play **** and they would not like that."

Source: "Passing Rythms: Liverpool FC and the Transformation of Football." John Williams, Stephen Hopkins, Cathy Long, 2001.

[RedReet]

I think that we have to be careful when we use it - it is a largely reactive formation unless the opposition is using wingers. Chelsea look a shadow of the team they were even last season (and even more so the start of this), the creative spark has gone and Torres, Drogba and Anelka didn't link at all.

It was a perfect choice to seek a draw and hope for a win against a superior team. In the long run I don't think it is the way we should be aiming to build a team if we want to win things.

My concern would be that Kenny clearly wanted Adam even though no one knew where he would fit in. After he doesn’t get him, we see Aurelio make a surprise return, a cultured passing left footer on the left of a midfield three. I hope it’s just a coincidence, although for now, this formation does seem to get the best out of a lot of our players.

I don't rely on stats mate, but when you watch the game live you miss a lot, especially when it is one that is very emotionally charged one as RedReet I'm sure can testify too.

Yes they could have cost us, but they didn't. Any time you give the ball away it can cost you though, every time you miss a shot it can be costly.

I wasn’t even anxious in the build up to the game, I thought I wouldn’t have been bothered if we lost.

With Maxi though, he was still our worst player although he did ok. Stats don’t show when he’s disposed too easily, miscontrols a pass, is muscled out of the way, makes a bad run etc. He had a few bad moments, more than most of teh othher players as well as the two highest profile ones.

[Mostar]

I'm happy to concede I'm wrong about Kuyt if so many of you think different. I just can't see it myself.

You're not alone. Except great work ethic I don't see what else Kuyt offers on the pitch.

Next year he'll be the squad player.

[Mostar]

The main thing that struck me was how similar to Rafa's Liverpool the team seemed to play, but with far more ambition when going forward.

Lucas was immense, as were all the team tbf. Carra proved he still has a big future in Kennys Liverpool and we are fast becoming a very very good team.

Give Kenny the job permanently now.

By the way Tee an awesome avatar!

[dww]

My concern would be that Kenny clearly wanted Adam even though no one knew where he would fit in. After he doesn’t get him, we see Aurelio make a surprise return, a cultured passing left footer on the left of a midfield three. I hope it’s just a coincidence, although for now, this formation does seem to get the best out of a lot of our players.

I don't see why that is a concern particularly - a midfield three in a 4-3-3 seems a positive step to me.

My suspicion was that Kenny wanted someone to do the role that Barton has done for Carrol at Newcastle this season and to add a lot to our set pieces. It is one of the defining aspects of the PL in the last few years that set pieces are so vital.

I would also suggest that some moves in January might be less reflective of a long term strategy as part of a plan to maximise this season - the league is weak and I have a suspicion that KD and Commolli were willing to gamble with the hope of pushing for fourth.

[RedReet]

I don't see why that is a concern particularly - a midfield three in a 4-3-3 seems a positive step to me.

My suspicion was that Kenny wanted someone to do the role that Barton has done for Carrol at Newcastle this season and to add a lot to our set pieces. It is one of the defining aspects of the PL in the last few years that set pieces are so vital.

I would also suggest that some moves in January might be less reflective of a long term strategy as part of a plan to maximise this season - the league is weak and I have a suspicion that KD and Commolli were willing to gamble with the hope of pushing for fourth.

That's what I was initially hoping we'd play against Wigan on Saturday, but that would mean dropping our form player Raul back into midfield, so not sure now. Well I hope your right, it was just the surprise inclusion of Aurelio that had me wondering.

I know Gerrard gets a lot of abuse of his corners on here (despite our good scoring record), but are Barton's much better? On that note, Meireles' efforts were poor against Chelsea.

The last paragraph I do agree with. I was surprised with our January efforts as I had given up on the season, but it was definitely clear that the men who mattered didn't.