Fourth place

[DannyMan2006]

Another thing is that too many people on the forum are talking about what we need to do to finish 4th next season. We should be talking about what we need to do to win the title next season. I am not willing to see another 5 year plan.

With some shrewd moves in the summer we can challenge next year, no doubt about it.

To win the title you need to have a good squad of players, not just a good first team. It's a debate in itself over whether or not we have a good first team, but we all know our squad is not good enough.

To improve that we'd need to spend quite a sum of money and with the FFR coming in this summer a big outlay that is required is unlikely. We have far to many average players in our squad at present and even the decent ones cause debates on this site between those who rate them and those that don't, Dirk and Maxi are two perfect examples of this.

Hopefully come next season we'll have had a decent turn over of players that improve our chances.

[Craig_H]

The other day you argued that you'd rather get 4th and the Mancs win the title so we could attract better players in the summer. Now you say you prefer to be in no European competition and concentrate on the league if you cannot get 4th.

Makes no sense.

We should want to take part in, and win, as many competitions as we are entitled to. We are here to win trophies.

If we got into the Champions League we could end up with Tuesday night football or Wednesday night football. Both would be distractions from the league, especially as the fans would want to see our strongest team in that competition.

No one is going to be upset, except UEFA, if we use a second string team in the groups stages of the Europa and it will be good experience for them.

I said this somewhere else, if we aren't strong enough to play 2 games a week then we are never going to win anything.

Another thing is that too many people on the forum are talking about what we need to do to finish 4th next season. We should be talking about what we need to do to win the title next season. I am not willing to see another 5 year plan.

With some shrewd moves in the summer we can challenge next year, no doubt about it.

Makes plenty of sense. If you think being in the europa league will help us attract top players, i'd disagree. You only have to look at the whole torres scenario. Not all players will be like him, but it's fair to say the CL is the nugget they all want, as opposed to the eurodisney cup.

And again you miss the point about midweek games - yes the CL would mean tuesday/wednesday night games - the point is, the CL is worth the hassle, for the rewards it brings. The Eurodisney Cup isnt.

[DannyMan2006]

Makes plenty of sense. If you think being in the europa league will help us attract top players, i'd disagree. You only have to look at the whole torres scenario. Not all players will be like him, but it's fair to say the CL is the nugget they all want, as opposed to the eurodisney cup.

And again you miss the point about midweek games - yes the CL would mean tuesday/wednesday night games - the point is, the CL is worth the hassle, for the rewards it brings. The Eurodisney Cup isnt.

I know for us, the Europa Cup is a drag, as we are used to the Champions League and see ourselves as being too good for the lesser cup.

But the fact is that many fans of lesser clubs than ourselves would love to be in the Europa Cup, and another fact is that depite it's fall from grace in England, it is still a highly regarded competition elsewhere in Europe.

Now the top quality established stars like Torres obviously see the Champions League as the place should be, and we may struggle to attract the big names because of that. But I think we are looking to bring in players before they get to the established stage, and as such the Europa League will still be a big draw.

And of course, winning the competition would certainly show players around Europe that we are a team well worth joining.

[Craig_H]

For top players who would still come to us, the big draw is LFC, not the Europa League.

[DannyMan2006]

I should also add, I would love to win the Europa League. A trophy is a trophy at the end of the day. In years to come people will forget about whether or not we finished 4th, but will remember the competitions we won.

The road to Dortmund in 2001 was brilliant with ties agaist the likes of Barca and Roma and it was great to win it. I think that was the first step in announcing our return to the big time if you like. It may have been a bit of a false dawn, but would be great to get Kennys era of to a bang.

[Craig_H]

I'm not saying i dont want to win it, but it's still an annoyance throughout the season. When we won it in 2001, it was a prestigious competition. Just look at the teams we played along the way back then - and compare them to now.

[DannyMan2006]

For top players who would still come to us, the big draw is LFC, not the Europa League.

Foreign players still see a club playing in Europe as a big attraction. It would help us. Plus we can turn around to younger players and say, look, we will give you chances to play in the Europa League. Look at Shelvey this year, got his first big break playing against Napoli. That is a great example we can show young players.

Give the young lads some much needed experience, give the squad players a game, and when it becomes interesting use your first team.

[Craig_H]

Mate, i still think top quality players, young or not, would be able to turn around and say "well that is great, but i can go to a club in the CL instead" - and the quality ones would be correct in saying that. Of course some would snub the CL to join us, as Suarez did - but they would be doing that because we are LFC, not because we're in the Europa League.

[DannyMan2006]

I'm not saying i dont want to win it, but it's still an annoyance throughout the season. When we won it in 2001, it was a prestigious competition. Just look at the teams we played along the way back then - and compare them to now.

The teams have been poor so far, but they get better. Braga aren't a bad little side and I would say that from that tie onwards, that is when we would start playing against some top sides.

And I don't think the prestige of the Cup has declined as much as people make out, it's just then we weren't accustomed to playing in the CL, now we are and rightly see it as a step down.

[topscorer]

What I hope to see in the summer: -

1. Our debatable first team players can be turned into squad players.
2. Our weak squad players should be shipped out.
3. Any purchase should be a real deal first team player that can help us win the title.
4. Any 'future prospect' kid purchase should be on a one in one out basis.

The Europa obviously won't be as big a draw for players as the Champions League but it's better than no European competition. Kids for the group stage and then depending how we are doing in the league and who we get drawn against either leave the kids in for the last 32 and last 16 in Feb/Mar 2012 or bring in the first teamers to win it.

I'd rather be in it than not and choose a team to suit my priority for it over other competitions.

Of course I'd rather be in the Champions League but I think it's a nonsense not to want to be involved in Europe at all if you aren't in the Champions League.

[DannyMan2006]

Mate, i still think top quality players, young or not, would be able to turn around and say "well that is great, but i can go to a club in the CL instead" - and the quality ones would be correct in saying that. Of course some would snub the CL to join us, as Suarez did - but they would be doing that because we are LFC, not because we're in the Europa League.

Young players will base a decision I would think on whether or not they can develop and if they will get chances to play.

And whilst LFC is a huge draw by name alone, that name comes from being successfull in Europe. So we would only be adding to that by actually being in Europe and getting to the latter stages of a competition there.

[Craig_H]

It still represents a failure, doesnt it? If we're honest. It's more of a consolation prize, than what we're aiming for.

[topscorer]

Mate, i still think top quality players, young or not, would be able to turn around and say "well that is great, but i can go to a club in the CL instead" - and the quality ones would be correct in saying that. Of course some would snub the CL to join us, as Suarez did - but they would be doing that because we are LFC, not because we're in the Europa League.

Your assuming that they have that choice.

Their are only 32 teams in the Champions League and half of them are crap no hopers in weak leagues. No disrespect to Norway but is someone really going to choose a team from Norway over Liverpool because they are in the Champions League?

The 10 to 12 real world class teams in Europe, of which we are one, cannot buy up every available player. Every team will have different needs in the summer.

So yes, maybe we will struggle to get a player that we like because another top 10 European team wants them and they are in the Champions League but it doesn't mean we cannot attract world class players this summer.

[DannyMan2006]

What I hope to see in the summer: -

1. Our debatable first team players can be turned into squad players.
2. Our weak squad players should be shipped out.
3. Any purchase should be a real deal first team player that can help us win the title.
4. Any 'future prospect' kid purchase should be on a one in one out basis.

The Europa obviously won't be as big a draw for players as the Champions League but it's better than no European competition. Kids for the group stage and then depending how we are doing in the league and who we get drawn against either leave the kids in for the last 32 and last 16 in Feb/Mar 2012 or bring in the first teamers to win it.

I'd rather be in it than not and choose a team to suit my priority for it over other competitions.

Of course I'd rather be in the Champions League but I think it's a nonsense not to want to be involved in Europe at all if you aren't in the Champions League.

As we have a large squad of experienced players I don't see being in Europe as a problem. If our squad was smaller I would say let's not bother so we could focus on the league next year.

And I agree on your thoughts about how to imrpove the squad. I hope we don't sell players like Kuyt and Maxi. If they do drop down to being squad players next year, how much better would it be to see them coming off the bench next year as opposed to someone like Jovanovic or Poulsen?

[DannyMan2006]

It still represents a failure, doesnt it? If we're honest. It's more of a consolation prize, than what we're aiming for.

We'd all rather be in the Champions League.

But the more competitions we are in the better chance we have of winning something. And the later stages of the Europa League does get the pulse racing. The games against Benfica and Atletico last year were exciting games.