Liverpool owner John W Henry: Dalglish doing “very well”

[RichC]

To say that Rafa falls out with boards is simply rubbish.

Look at the situation at Valencia. The board pissed on him. We had first Parry and then Gillett, Hicks and Purslow........I would have been very disappointed if Rafa wouldn't stood up for what he believed in, the club.

Parry pissed on him and so did Gillett, Hicks and Purslow.

He challenged a power mad man at Inter. A man that you simply don't challenge about anything.

Rafa is a very proud man and won't accept to see the club he is at being treated in a bad way. He will speak out about it. That is why most fans respect him very much. He don't accept that the owners run the club as a toy. He want what is best for the club and the fans.

Rafa will always put the club he is at before what is best for himself. He did that at Valencia, us and Inter.

the whys and wherefores as to him falling out with boards isn't rubbish - it has happened, is well documented and regardless of reasons it has happened in his last 3 clubs.

Some perspective would be good especially from someone that continually bleats about Gerrard being able to do no wrong in the eyes of supporters, the irony with that is you do exactly the same with Rafa - practice what you preach!

And as I said good manager but needs to work on his people skills as otherwise we'll never see how good or great he really can be as he'll be moving around too much to do so!

[RichC]

He happened to be extremely well backed in his last two jobs too.

don't get me wrong I am no Maureen fan but he has done bloody well in his last two jobs, he was backed massively as well but why was he backed at Inter and Rafa wasn't - it's not as if Inter wanted to screw him over? I mean from Inters point of view they made the change and are now only 5 points behind AC.

Rafa's a top manager but he makes things difficult for himself sometimes.

[Vermilion]

don't get me wrong I am no Maureen fan but he has done bloody well in his last two jobs, he was backed massively as well but why was he backed at Inter and Rafa wasn't - it's not as if Inter wanted to screw him over? I mean from Inters point of view they made the change and are now only 5 points behind AC.

Rafa's a top manager but he makes things difficult for himself sometimes.

Was'nt it ? Rafa was made certain promises when he took the job, promises he clearly felt were not being made good on, bit like Maureen at Madrid where he slagged off Valdano was it., he just did'nt lose his job for it.

With Rafa it's called trouble making, speaking out of turn, upsetting the apple cart, with Maureen it's called passion and a will to do well, but essentially they are the same thing.

Imo Inter would be as well off now if they'd stuck with RAFA and got all their top players back, he did'nt even get to benefit from that.

I don't think people realise how many of Inters star players were missing during his time there.

Add to that Maureens caustic texts and calls to his ex players at Inter about how Rafa was doing this or that wrong and you get the picture.

[RichC]

Was'nt it ? Rafa was made certain promises when he took the job, promises he clearly felt were not being made good on, bit like Maureen at Madrid where he slagged off Valdano was it., he just did'nt lose his job for it.

Come on why on earth would a football club want to screw a manager over, that's nuts!

[CJ]

Compare that with Fergie who is very much a yes man that is to afraid to challenge Glazer. He is the biggest reason to why Glazer hasn't sold up yet IMO.

If he had challenged them then they would have been gone without any doubt at all but he don't want to risk his job doing it.

Rafa challenged our board and helped us to get rid of them.

and whiskey nose is still on course for another title and possible another big one (lets hope he wins **** all this season but cant see it happening) so i think its a good comparison for this debate. I dont think rafa was wrong to fall out with the cancer at our club at the time but to state he doesnt fall out is pure bull****. also the whiskey comparison illustrates there are other ways of doing things.

I should have said that he falls out with them for very good reasons. He want what is best for the club. He will fight for it even if it may cost him his job.

which if your one of the best managers in the world means your depriving the club of your services smacks of cutting your nose of to spite your face

Falling out isn't a bad thing when a revolution is needed. Rafa wants it his way, that's probably where problems may lie with him. I don't see much difference in the way Mourihno handles his relationship with his owners as well, he's fell out with most of them too.

i didnt say it was a bad thing. as with virtually everything in life that course of action has advantages and disadvantages. I was replying to arn saying rafa doesnt fall out with boards. also the comparison with whiskey nose is a valid one. Same with maureen however he has done it in a way that wont affect his reputation much like how he chooses his jobs he is clever in that respect and its too his benifit. Still think that Rafa has his number though.

He happened to be extremely well backed in his last two jobs too, and was at clubs not in turmoil over ownership or with agenda ridden board members.


ps. As far as i'm concerned anyway, Rafa left liverpool a winner in my eyes, ALL things considered.

i have to agree, its a pity he didnt get the chance to stay but would he have fallen out with our current owners if they didnt give him what he wanted? no manager gets exactly what they want all of the time. still one of the top managers and tactically i think probably the best

the whys and wherefores as to him falling out with boards isn't rubbish - it has happened, is well documented and regardless of reasons it has happened in his last 3 clubs.

Some perspective would be good especially from someone that continually bleats about Gerrard being able to do no wrong in the eyes of supporters, the irony with that is you do exactly the same with Rafa - practice what you preach!

And as I said good manager but needs to work on his people skills as otherwise we'll never see how good or great he really can be as he'll be moving around too much to do so!

exactly in terms of practice what you preach. i am not sure his people skills are as bad as are stated to be honest again his approach has advantages and disadvantages i suppose the weakness would be not tweaking his approach depending on players at his disposal again though this has its own problems

don't get me wrong I am no Maureen fan but he has done bloody well in his last two jobs, he was backed massively as well but why was he backed at Inter and Rafa wasn't - it's not as if Inter wanted to screw him over? I mean from Inters point of view they made the change and are now only 5 points behind AC.

Rafa's a top manager but he makes things difficult for himself sometimes.

yep i agree maureen is a bit cleverer or more cynical in that respect but then it is always about him. he has also worked under huge pressure and delivered so is obviously a good manager just not my cup of tea where as rafa is

[CJ]

Was'nt it ? Rafa was made certain promises when he took the job, promises he clearly felt were not being made good on, bit like Maureen at Madrid where he slagged off Valdano was it., he just did'nt lose his job for it.

With Rafa it's called trouble making, speaking out of turn, upsetting the apple cart, with Maureen it's called passion and a will to do well, but essentially they are the same thing.

yes but the thing is maureen is a better promoter so gets better press and that is a skill whether we like it or not.

and if Rafa doesnt learn to compramise it may be to the detrement of the rest of his career.

the thing is sometimes the things that made him one of the best in the world are not always the same as the things that will keep him there.

[RichC]

yes but the thing is maureen is a better promoter so gets better press and that is a skill whether we like it or not.

and if Rafa doesnt learn to compramise it may be to the detrement of the rest of his career.

the thing is sometimes the things that made him one of the best in the world are not always the same as the things that will keep him there.

I really hope in Rafas next role he gets the backing he deserves and shows again what a fantastic manager he is but he's got to learn to pick and choose his battles a bit better.

[Kenneth]

I don't think Jose guarantees things without delivering them either.

[Vermilion]

I just think people over simplify things, "Oh Rafa was a failure at Inter" is not taking everthing into consideration.

[CJ]

I really hope in Rafas next role he gets the backing he deserves and shows again what a fantastic manager he is but he's got to learn to pick and choose his battles a bit better.

i agree

and out of the two i would have Rafa over maureen any day of the week

every manager brings good and bad for some reason arn says he understands that but his words seem to say something different

[RichC]

I just think people over simplify things, "Oh Rafa was a failure at Inter" is not taking everthing into consideration.

true but you could then use the same arguement for the Bodge

[Vermilion]

I don't think Jose guarantees things without delivering them either.

Yeah, because Jose always gets what he wants eh.

Even if it means telling lies about managers in refs dressing rooms and ruining a mans career.

Woo. Hoo. Maureen,

[CJ]

I don't think Jose guarantees things without delivering them either.

agree

I just think people over simplify things, "Oh Rafa was a failure at Inter" is not taking everthing into consideration.

agree

to be honest though he did fail at inter and maureen didnt. there are reasons for this

however some of the same arguments about players not wanting to work for him could be said about the bodge for us.

not saying bodge was anything but a failure for us or that he is in anyway near the ability of Rafa as a manager, its just that some arguments can be used in more than one way and the people using them dont like the same principal used in other cases. not saying thats you by the way

and bodge was a total failure at our club

[Vermilion]

true but you could then use the same arguement for the Bodge

Not really, what reason would you have to be confident the Bodge would eventually get it right, he's won **** all.

[dww]

yes but the thing is maureen is a better promoter so gets better press and that is a skill whether we like it or not.

and if Rafa doesnt learn to compramise it may be to the detrement of the rest of his career.

the thing is sometimes the things that made him one of the best in the world are not always the same as the things that will keep him there.

I think part of it though is the situations they go into. Rafa has taken on some very uphill tasks - Mourinho always goes into an established power base with money to move it forward. In general conspicuous success has been what has shielded him, as it has Fergusson.

If Rafa took an easier job the things he said would be taken in a better light and if he accepted that sometimes winning might not be possible he would be both better liked and a worse manager at the same time. I think Rafa needs a long term project and an environment where people want to build.

I think falling out with the Valencia and Liverpool boards he worked with was inevitable for any top manager. I'm not so sure about Inter but it always looked like a massive gamble.