How would we fare if we bought no-one else in?

[Exiled_red]

I think it is mportant to make a distinction between next season and how the current squad would have performed this season. The difference is subtle but important, had we started this season with the squad we have now and Kenny in charge fighting against all the current squads I think most of us will agree that we would probably have done better (perhaps top 4).

However going into next season with this squad will be different because presumably every other side will be making improvements, hence next season our current squad would have to out perform the improved squads of other teams, which will in all likelihood be more difficult.

Man City making the CL will allow them to attract a better quality of player than they currently can, previously they only had the money now they have money and CL football, to prospective players they are a more attractive option. Based on the league table they are our closest rivals for the top 4 next season, so while staying as we are might be good enough for 5th again, the gap between them and us will likely become wider. Therefore improvements are essential, in order to get 4th spot we have to improve enough to overcome a stonger Man City/Arsenal/Chelsea/Man Utd side.

[RedReet]

I think it is mportant to make a distinction between next season and how the current squad would have performed this season. The difference is subtle but important, had we started this season with the squad we have now and Kenny in charge fighting against all the current squads I think most of us will agree that we would probably have done better (perhaps top 4).

However going into next season with this squad will be different because presumably every other side will be making improvements, hence next season our current squad would have to out perform the improved squads of other teams, which will in all likelihood be more difficult.

Man City making the CL will allow them to attract a better quality of player than they currently can, previously they only had the money now they have money and CL football, to prospective players they are a more attractive option. Based on the league table they are our closest rivals for the top 4 next season, so while staying as we are might be good enough for 5th again, the gap between them and us will likely become wider. Therefore improvements are essential, in order to get 4th spot we have to improve enough to overcome a stonger Man City/Arsenal/Chelsea/Man Utd side.

Good point about City.

I think it’s a bit presumptuous to expect all other teams to improve though. Yes they might spend money, but as Chelsea have recently proved, that doesn’t guarantee improvement. I suppose the same could be said about us too, but seeing as our problems are so glaringly obvious, you’d be surprised if we don’t see improvement. I hadn’t paid much attention to the potential City have to improve their team, but I’m clinging to the hope that Mancini will continue to hold them back.

[Exiled_red]

Good point about City.

I think it’s a bit presumptuous to expect all other teams to improve though. Yes they might spend money, but as Chelsea have recently proved, that doesn’t guarantee improvement. I suppose the same could be said about us too, but seeing as our problems are so glaringly obvious, you’d be surprised if we don’t see improvement. I hadn’t paid much attention to the potential City have to improve their team, but I’m clinging to the hope that Mancini will continue to hold them back.

I think that we have to work on the assumption that clubs who have money to spend are going to improve, it may or may not be the case, but we shouldn't budget for our success based on them failing.

I think most clubs will improve over the summer Man City I have already mentioned, Chelsea seemingly have money to spend again, Arsenal are in need of improvements and will have money (that may depend on Wenger's willingness to spend).

Spurs and Man Utd may have difficult summers, there were rumours that Spurs may have to sell if they don't make CL again, whether this is true or not remains to be seen, but unless they improve I don't see them being our main rivals for a CL spot. Man Utd are different, their season could be defined by how well the replacement for van der Sar does. VDS has been a great keeper for them so will be a hard act to follow, and due to the ownership circumstances of them we don't know how much money they may have to spend improving other areas.

[JohnDoe]

I could also of course went down this route and just said, this team next year will definitely finish first.

Our results since Kenny came in have caused a false sense of security to set in when it comes to the quality of our squad. We have a history of doing well when the title race is over and we have nothing to play for. I for one hope the men in charge see beyond some decent performances under zero pressure from some of our dispensable and average players and look at the bigger picture, which is that they are not good enough for championship caliber teams and this squad needs a massive overhaul. We need at least five, first team quality players and anyone who's only good enough to be tagged as a "squad player" needs to go unless he's an academy/youth product.

[RedReet]

I think that we have to work on the assumption that clubs who have money to spend are going to improve, it may or may not be the case, but we shouldn't budget for our success based on them failing.

I think most clubs will improve over the summer Man City I have already mentioned, Chelsea seemingly have money to spend again, Arsenal are in need of improvements and will have money (that may depend on Wenger's willingness to spend).

Spurs and Man Utd may have difficult summers, there were rumours that Spurs may have to sell if they don't make CL again, whether this is true or not remains to be seen, but unless they improve I don't see them being our main rivals for a CL spot. Man Utd are different, their season could be defined by how well the replacement for van der Sar does. VDS has been a great keeper for them so will be a hard act to follow, and due to the ownership circumstances of them we don't know how much money they may have to spend improving other areas.

Absolutely.

Our results since Kenny came in have caused a false sense of security to set in when it comes to the quality of our squad. We have a history of doing well when the title race is over and we have nothing to play for. I for one hope the men in charge see beyond some decent performances under zero pressure from some of our dispensable and average players and look at the bigger picture, which is that they are not good enough for championship caliber teams and this squad needs a massive overhaul. We need at least five, first team quality players and anyone who's only good enough to be tagged as a "squad player" needs to go unless he's an academy/youth product.

Can't really disagree although I’m sure we could squabble over the finer details. You have a fair point I suppose about us having less to play for and it’s true we do usually finish the season stronger. Rightly or wrongly, I thought our team was more than capable of a top four finish pre-season though, so rather than see this as a prolonged purple patch for some of our players, I’m hoping it’s just a good manager getting the best of a decent set of players and playing to their strengths.

Edit: Obviously my quoted text about finishing first was very tongue-in-cheek.

[BobTheCharmer]

you take Suarez out of our team and it becomes static and predictable. You only have to look at the last few Europa league games to see this. Without a decent back up for him we would struggle to win a lot of games.

We need another flair forward, a game changer. Will said player be happy not being first choice? It's a hard one, but this is where Utd seem to get it right so often, the way they play isn't over reliant on one player. For years we've depended on Gerrard and then Torres. This new team of ours needs to flourish as one. I'm confident it will under Kenny.

[brianj]

Not strengthening the squad is standing still. If you stand still while others change and strenghen you clearly fall even further behind.

The only thing that scews this argument is the Dalgleish & Clarke factor the heavy investment in January, over a full season Suarez and Carroll will hopefully have a larger impact, and the blooding of the youngsters which fingers crossed so far has been successful are like new signings outwith the usual window.

But in general if you standstill I would say you are going to fall behind or allow other to catch up

[Mostar]

Not strengthening the squad is standing still. If you stand still while others change and strenghen you clearly fall even further behind.

The only thing that scews this argument is the Dalgleish & Clarke factor the heavy investment in January, over a full season Suarez and Carroll will hopefully have a larger impact, and the blooding of the youngsters which fingers crossed so far has been successful are like new signings outwith the usual window.

But in general if you standstill I would say you are going to fall behind or allow other to catch up

Good point.

We need to improve our squad not only because other top teams will but obviously cause we current squad has too much deadwood and it is still too thin and injuries to our key players would put us in a difficult position.

It really shouldnt' be a question if we will bring some new players but it is a question of how many.

Hopefully as Comolli said himself we will have a very busy summer and I personally cannot wait.

[johnly]

We have to be sensible this summer. Doing nothing will do us no good. As supporters we all want to see big money spent on big players and I'm one of those. I want to see us spend another £20 million on a player of Suarez's calibre, as long as we choose these targets carefully.

I agree with the above post the Citeh will attract a high calibre of player. Champions League football is a major pull, but also Citeh have the ability to pay silly money for players and just as silly money for wages. This not only attracts high calibre players, but also high calibre mercenaries who will not be part of the functioning team in the long run. In my opinion Ballotelli is an absolute disgrace of a buy. Stupid money for an overrated ego maniac with a fuse shorter that a matchhead. Mancini can't tame him and neither can his team mates. Then we look at their 'talisman' Carlos Tevez. A man who has been here 4 years, refuses to learn English and reportedly wants out. Why does he want to go? Team spirit there could snap any minute and 4th place for them this season could very much become 6th next year.

City could be a wad of great players, but will it work? Who knows. We need to buy players who want to play for the team, who want to work with our staff and run through walls to play for our club regardless of what they get paid.

The balance of the squad needs to be addressed. We have a number of players that could be considered deadwood. They need to move on and be replaced. We've got some kids finally coming through the academy and we've already seen the benefits in the past few games. Even Spearing, who I'd come close to writing off has stepped up under Kenny.

So staying still will get us nowhere, investing in the right players, regardless of rep will do us right. Spending big money and paying big wages on players does not guarantee success. Real Madrid attested to that last night

[Mostar]

Man City making the CL will allow them to attract a better quality of player than they currently can, previously they only had the money now they have money and CL football, to prospective players they are a more attractive option.

With the new FFPR rules being in force as of 2013/14 season and financial accounts calculations starting this summer I am not so sure they have money to spend. Their overall revenue from ticketes sales is not great, their shirt sponsorship, TV rigths, shirt manufacturer deal and other forms of marketing are lagging still quite a bit behind other top clubs and their wages on the expense side are outrageously high. Also they may qualify for CL but that revenue may not be great if the don't make it into the second round.

I do agree that with CL football they may be able to attract the better players but I think those potential buys, for the most part, will need to be financed with the sales of their own players, which may be sold for significantly less than they were purchased for as Cityh paid for many of them at premium.

[brianj]

With the new FFPR rules being in force as of 2013/14 season and financial accounts calculations starting this summer I am not so sure they have money to spend. Their overall revenue from ticketes sales is not great, their shirt sponsorship, TV rigths, shirt manufacturer deal and other forms of marketing are lagging still quite a bit behind other top clubs and their wages on the expense side are outrageously high. Also they may qualify for CL but that revenue may not be great if the don't make it into the second round.

I do agree that with CL football they may be able to attract the better players but I think those potential buys, for the most part, will need to be financed with the sales of their own players, which may be sold for significantly less than they were purchased for as Cityh paid for many of them at premium.

Agree with this, hopefully the FFPR rules and lack of debt greater income streams etc will level the playing field with the likes of City and Chelsea when it comes to summer spending.

The real trick will be convincing players and agents that missing 1 year of Champions League will be worth it longterm.

We need to sell the Magic of the club its pedigree the fact we appear to be on the up both on and off the pitch and that the likes of City and Chelsea cannot sustain there squads and spending due to FFPR they have hopefully peaked as clubs and cannot maintain their current business model and spending/transfer policy.
We on the other hand appear to be able to increase spending and have a sustainable business model to succeed.
Younger players and there agents will hopefully look longterm rather than shorterm when considering there moves.
Fingers crossed anyway

[RedReet]

i may have misunderstood the intent of the origonal post but i thought its aim was that this current team could challenge for the league type.

Having read so many people post and say that we need to buy new players, I kept wondering why everyone is still stating the bloody obvious.

I have only now just noticed the title of the thread 'How would we fare if we bought no-one else in?', so realise the confusion.

[Mostar]

Agree with this, hopefully the FFPR rules and lack of debt greater income streams etc will level the playing field with the likes of City and Chelsea when it comes to summer spending.

The real trick will be convincing players and agents that missing 1 year of Champions League will be worth it longterm.

We need to sell the Magic of the club its pedigree the fact we appear to be on the up both on and off the pitch and that the likes of City and Chelsea cannot sustain there squads and spending due to FFPR they have hopefully peaked as clubs and cannot maintain their current business model and spending/transfer policy.
We on the other hand appear to be able to increase spending and have a sustainable business model to succeed.
Younger players and there agents will hopefully look longterm rather than shorterm when considering there moves.
Fingers crossed anyway

I think Comolli said that there was a great deal of interest by agents and players about joining LFC, which really shouldn't be surprise, and even though some may not be drawn due to lack of CL football this year, many will be with our new project and our rich heritage.

Those that won't, that is fine as they are not type of players that would want anyways.

As many pointed out playing for LFC should be one of or THE proudest and greatest moments in their career and if you don't see that way we're better off without them.

[Exiled_red]

With the new FFPR rules being in force as of 2013/14 season and financial accounts calculations starting this summer I am not so sure they have money to spend. Their overall revenue from ticketes sales is not great, their shirt sponsorship, TV rigths, shirt manufacturer deal and other forms of marketing are lagging still quite a bit behind other top clubs and their wages on the expense side are outrageously high. Also they may qualify for CL but that revenue may not be great if the don't make it into the second round.

I do agree that with CL football they may be able to attract the better players but I think those potential buys, for the most part, will need to be financed with the sales of their own players, which may be sold for significantly less than they were purchased for as Cityh paid for many of them at premium.

I don't think that the finincial fair play rules will make that much difference this summer, there was a report a while back that wages of contracts agree before last summer could be excluded (I can't find the link i'm afraid), which gives alot more leeway, also as this is the first year of the assessment, I think clubs will just think they can make savings or increase revenue later.

[Mostar]

I don't think that the finincial fair play rules will make that much difference this summer, there was a report a while back that wages of contracts agree before last summer could be excluded (I can't find the link i'm afraid), which gives alot more leeway, also as this is the first year of the assessment, I think clubs will just think they can make savings or increase revenue later.

Would like to see that report that wages from previous years are excluded from financial accounts.

See this Tomkins article that explains well the FFPR..

http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/08/the-uefa-financial-fair-play-rules-liverpool-fc/

I also included few tables and graphs to show the Cityh financials and potential impact of FFPR.



Keep in mind that wages don't include the newer signings wages such as Yaya Toure £200k, Mario Baolotelli £150k, James Milner £130k, David Silva £120k, Jerome Boateng £100k, Aleksandar Kolarov £100k etc that would increase the wage bill by £42 million a year.

Against that, City sold Robinho, Stephen Ireland, Valeri Bojinov and Javier Garrido, while they also released Benjani, Sylvinho and Martin Petrov, where Robinho was a high earner (reportedly £160k a week), while I would expect Ireland to be on around £70k. The others combined could be an average of £40k per week. All of this would mean £22 million coming off the payroll.

The net impact of these movements is an increase of £20 million in wages to around £153 million



City reported revenue over £100 million for the first time in the club’s history with a 44% rise in turnover from £87 million to £125 million. the vast majority of the £38 million increase has come from commercial revenue from "corporate friendly partnerships” such as Etihad Airways, Etisalat, the Abu Dhabi Tourism Authority and Aabar. City signed new marketing deals with Etihad and Umbro, replacing Thomas Cook and Le Coq Sportif as shirt sponsor and supplier. Etihad’s deal is worth £25 million over the next three seasons, compared to Thomas Cook’s £2.3 million annual payment, while Umbro have entered into a ten-year strategic partnership for more than £50 million.



It should be noted that City are not quite debt-free yet, as they still have £36 million of outstanding loan notes and bank loans plus £39 million provided for future stadium rent, giving gross debt of £75 million. .

Cityh does not own the City of Manchester Stadium, which is rented from the council on a 250-year lease. The rental payments are based on a formula whereby the club retains receipts up to the 34,000 capacity of Maine Road, their old ground, but has to pay 50% of any revenue above that to the council. This basically means that City do not fully receive the benefit of higher attendances, as it just means more rent paid to the council.

There has been some talk that the club would seek to buy the stadium from the council, but recent reports indicate that it is more likely that they would try to renegotiate the terms of the lease to a flat fee. That certianly can play significant role on their abilities to generate match day revenue.

All in all things may not be so rosy for Cityh with FFPR just around the corner.