Alexander Doni

[Red_Polo]

As for why footballers not taking creatine - it being unsafe is not the only possible reason

Creatine is good for power, not for speed or stamina. Acceleration obviously requires power, but overall football involves relatively little intense anaerobic exertion so the physiological cost-benefit may not be worth it.

[el matador]

So how would you like to counter the actual science I presented you?

Precautions

Creatine supplements should not be taken by anyone with a history of high blood pressure, kidney problems or liver disease. Consult your doctor before taking any supplements.

Ok... I'm not a doctor as I've said a thousand times before but taking creatine can lead to increased blood pressure. Which in turn can lead to heart attacks / heart disease.

with more science I guess.

[el matador]

As for why footballers not taking creatine - it being unsafe is not the only possible reason

Creatine is good for power, not for speed or stamina. Acceleration obviously requires power, but overall football involves relatively little intense anaerobic exertion so the physiological cost-benefit may not be worth it.

there's something to that definitely.

I also think its clubs taking a more responsible attitude towards players wellfare too. I know saj doesn't agree but I think when you go into these grey areas there's always going to be outcomes you hadn't anticipated.

[Red_Polo]

Well to be honest you haven't made any kind of case for it being unsafe to take.

Of course there are contraindications, there are contraindications to everything

Plus - "don't take this if you have hypertension" doesn't mean "if you take this you will get hypertension", it means it can have some effect on BP so caution needs to be exercised. An increase in BP doesn't necessarily mean hypertension!

[el matador]

Well to be honest you haven't made any kind of case for it being unsafe to take.

Of course there are contraindications, there are contraindications to everything

Plus - "don't take this if you have hypertension" doesn't mean "if you take this you will get hypertension", it means it can have some effect on BP so caution needs to be exercised. An increase in BP doesn't necessarily mean hypertension!

I never mentioned hypertension so please don't speak for me.

So are you saying that there is no link between the possibility of someone taking creatine and suffering amongst other things a heart attack.

[Red_Polo]

Yes you did. Hypertension is high blood pressure. Which you mentioned specifically.

[el matador]

Yes you did. Hypertension is high blood pressure. Which you mentioned specifically.

hypertension is a disease.

Creatine temporarily causes blood pressure to increase. Were not talking about permanent high blood pressure which is hypertension. when its in the system blood pressure can increase. When its been used by the body and is no longer in the system the blood pressure can drop again.

But you've just made my next point for me.

If someone with hypertension uses creatine, they are at risk of possible strokes and heart attacks which is at odds with what matt and dom were arguing earlier.

Surely, you can't disagree with that.

[Mattshark]

I never mentioned hypertension so please don't speak for me.

So are you saying that there is no link between the possibility of someone taking creatine and suffering amongst other things a heart attack.

There is no evidence to link creatine and heart attacks though, did you not see that I put up a paper on that regard?

[Mattshark]

hypertension is a disease.

Creatine temporarily causes blood pressure to increase. Were not talking about permanent high blood pressure which is hypertension. when its in the system blood pressure can increase. When its been used by the body and is no longer in the system the blood pressure can drop again.

But you've just made my next point for me.

If someone with hypertension uses creatine, they are at risk of possible strokes and heart attacks which is at odds with what matt and dom were arguing earlier.

Surely, you can't disagree with that.

Your claim is not supported by evidence, I supplied ample evidence.

[el matador]

There is no evidence to link creatine and heart attacks though, did you not see that I put up a paper on that regard?

maybe not directly matt but indirectly through increased blood pressure there could be.

If you don't believe it just first see if using creatine can increase blood pressure. Then look at the possible relationship between increased blood pressure and heart disease, attacks and strokes.

I'm not making this up mate.

[Mattshark]

maybe not directly matt but indirectly through increased blood pressure there could be.

If you don't believe it just first see if using creatine can increase blood pressure. Then look at the possible relationship between increased blood pressure and heart disease, attacks and strokes.

I'm not making this up mate.

Did you see the paper I linked to? On heart issues? Where no link was found?

[little dave hedgehog]

because if anybody realizes the implications and causes of heart trouble, it's probably not the biologist.

[el matador]

Your claim is not supported by evidence, I supplied ample evidence.

all im telling you is what's out there already.

Follow the steps I've told you to and then see if what I said is that preposterous.

Go on check for yourself.

[el matador]

Did you see the paper I linked to? On heart issues? Where no link was found?

ok matt just answer this then we can call this a night.

If a person suffering with hypertension takes creatine supplements could it result in his already high blood pressure being raised to dangerous levels and could that result in amongst other things a heart attack.

[Mattshark]

ok matt just answer this then we can call this a night.

If a person suffering with hypertension takes creatine supplements could it result in his already high blood pressure being raised to dangerous levels and could that result in amongst other things a heart attack.

Do you know what a scientific paper is?