Interesting discussion on sky last night between laudraup, souness and gullit. Basically saying that football is so fast these days, that in midfiled you don't get time to read the game or direct the play. Basically said that it's the defenders who are the only people on the pitch who have time to read the game, and that the key attacking players in this regard are the fullbacks. Which kind of makes sense if you think of the amount of effort rafa has been putting into securing decent attacking full backs for the team. Alves is a priority for us this coming year I think.
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Agreed.
It's obvious that Rafa wants Finnan to be a key outlet for the right flank with putting crosses in and helping the attacking players out on that side of the pitch. Having Alves as an option there would increase out chances of success from the right hand side.
Don't get me wrong, Finnan has done fantastically well for us since he signed and has become a key player for us. However, especially in home games we rely heavily on the right back to provide the crosses for our strikers and having the Alves option there would be of great value to us. He is a more attack-minded player than Finnan and would give us an extra edge on that side of the pitch, like what Riise does on the opposite flank.
Finnan is much better defensively though and would be/is ideal for away games or against the better sides, whereas Alves would be more suited to help break a defensive team down by stretching their defence with width.
They'd provide great strength and cover for the right flank next season if we were able to get Alves. -
Anyone seen Alves play this season. Is there a better option or possibility?Comment
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I think you make a lot of good points. It does occur to me that since our home form is so good so far this season then doesn't the argument fall down a bit?Originally posted by Taffy.
Suppose you have a physicist and a sociologist standing at the side of a field, observing a set of events unfolding on the field. The physicist does [describes] it using the terminology of mass and velocity and frequency of radiation and the rest. And the sociologist does it by describing it as a rugby match.
May the Lord bless this post.Comment
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Well, I sort of agree.
If you look at our formation when we have the ball, Hypia moves left to cover the LB/CB space allowing the LB forward, Carra moves into the middle more and Finnan hangs back level with Alonso who sits in front of the back two. Momo plays in the space in front of Alonso, not beside him, pressing higher up and disrupting the build up play of the opposition.
From there, Alonso can read the game and we effecively have 2 and a half behind him as the LB invariably pushes forward (when it's Riise or Aurelio).
If Finnan or his replacement were to push forward as much as the LB then the CBs and Alonso would have the whole width of the pitch to cover, a big ask. In other teams, with a really defensive holding midfield player both full backs could push on at the same time more comfortably, but that's not Alonso's game.
I would be surprised to see two attacking FBs push on at the same time with our current midfield set up.Luck - the only substitute for skillComment
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I think the Momo/Alonso CM partnership would really excel in this sort of formation. Momo covers the ground so well and on form Alonso's positional sense is magic. It does however put pressure on them to play and perform well in all games as we don't have alternatives. For that reason if we do sign Alves I hope we also get a holding midfielder for next season.
In general I think that the idea that fullbacks have had an increasingly important role both in terms of attacking and defending in the modern game is right. The problem is there are not many players who have the fitness levels to play as an attacking fullback, and even fewer who have the talent to do it well.Last edited by dww; 02-11-06, 11:33 AM."The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind."
-- William BlakeComment
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Personally I think they are no more important that any other area. Attacking wise, yes if you have some good attacking fullback they are worth their weight in gold, and we know how much Rafga likes them, but ask Rafa, the game will always be about possibilities
long passing, short passing crossing from the fullbacks, tallented dribblers, long range shooting etc.
Bill shankly to Tommy Smith after he'd turned up for training with a bandaged knee:
'Take that poof bandage off, and what do you mean YOUR knee, it's LIVERPOOL'S knee !'
"Sorry, boss, I should have kept my legs together," said Lawrence. "No, Tommy, your mother should have kept her legs together!," replied Shankly.
* After Tommy Lawrence had let in a fluke goal between his legsComment
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I don't think we'd see both full backs pushing up at the same time tho, as you say when Risse pushes up Hyypia goes left and Finnan hangs back, well if we had an Alves type player would the reverse also not be true. Carra over to the right and Riise hanging back.Originally posted by OldManRed
It also raises the question of do you go with a back 5 to compensate for both wing backs attacking at the same time so a defending 5-3-2 and an attacking 3-5-2, or even 3-3-4?Thomas Hicks SeniorComment
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On both FBs pushing forward, I think it's balanced and uncomplicated as it is now. We've seen how difficult it is to have the "you go/I'll stay" situation in the middle of the park (Lumpard and Gerrard) when the players are together, when they are on opposite sides of the field it'll be even harder.Originally posted by Morphorino
I think you've hit on the issue with 2 attacking FBs when you mention 3-5-2 - and that seems as popular as having the job of cleaning the linnen in a whore house. Perhaps it would be time to try it again if we got Alves?Luck - the only substitute for skillComment
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I think that the place of the third centre back should always be taken by a midfield sweeper (or holding player) - it offers much greater flexibility and balance.Originally posted by Morphorino"The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind."
-- William BlakeComment
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are we basically saying that the advantage of wing backs over wingers is that they can give almost as much going forward as a winger but can also offer some defensive abilities when required?Comment
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I think the point is also that in a 4-4-2 or similar formation the fullback starting positions are further back and give them a better view of the overall flow of the game - hence allowing a good attacking minded full back to identify gaps and make more intelligent runs than might be possible for a wide midfielder who is drawn into the hurly burly of a midfield battle."The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind."
-- William BlakeComment
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I heard the opposite on the radio the other day. They basically said that wing backs are now extinct because the pace of the game demands too much from them. It is just impossible to cover so much ground and do an effective job in both defending and attacking.Oh I don't know.Comment
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I think that is true of wing backs in the 5-3-2 formation, but attacking fullbacks in a 4-4-2 don't have to constantly get up and down the flanks but can time their runs for maximum effect. Despite this they are a rare breed as you need attacking skills allied to an engine like Momo's to be ideal for the position. However players like Alves, Eboue and Cole prove it can be done in the modern game."The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind."
-- William BlakeComment
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Ok can we just get one thing straight.
From what i can see, we never ever play 4-4-2
that is all.Bill shankly to Tommy Smith after he'd turned up for training with a bandaged knee:
'Take that poof bandage off, and what do you mean YOUR knee, it's LIVERPOOL'S knee !'
"Sorry, boss, I should have kept my legs together," said Lawrence. "No, Tommy, your mother should have kept her legs together!," replied Shankly.
* After Tommy Lawrence had let in a fluke goal between his legsComment
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