Bolton post match

[G]

You are surely having a laugh, I agree about Ged but even that was over a 2 year period, as for Rafa you surely can't be serious??? He had 1 bad season, I don't regard that as the arse falling out of it and since when did LFC ever sack managers for having 1 poor season??? Had the board shown some faith in the man who gave us back our pride, we would never have had the debacle of Bodgson and with FSG's investment we would be back fighting for trohies again, in my humble opinion.

No not having a laugh, it's an opinion, just like yours.

Apart from 3 months of the title challenging season Rafa had us playing pretty sterile football. I was ****ed off with it quite often in alot of Rafas seasons but it won games. I had always hoped that the style of play would evolve to something that both won games and entertained and it looked like it might from Feb to may in 09 but that was temporary. I wasn't alone. After every **** home draw there were plenty of dissenting voices, Rafa was a man who did and still does evenly divide the support base.

Once the style we played stopped getting results though there was little point in continuing. There was turmoil going on that he had to deal with and I think it helped take his eye off the ball, but he also lost something once paco went, the friendly foil to his military precision all of which helped take away from the man's ability to do his job effectively.

The Rafa debate can never be won, we all have our opinion, for me though he won the last of his trophies 4 years before he lost his job and we had 1 title challenge in that time. I said at the time I thought we needed a change but I didn't want those owners doing the changing. Sadly that's how it played out but the past is the past.

I for one wouldn't go back to it.

[Havors]

4 horribly wrong???

Carroll and Downing I think its probably clear they are the wrong signings

Henderson will be a good player for us in the future and Adam will probably turn out a good squad player

Adams problems is his deficiencies are being exposed when Lucas isnt there

When Lucas was he looked a much better player than he has

Adam is a lazy lazy *******! He is a championship player. He seriously needs dropping and told to lose some weight and work on his fitness.

Carroll i dont think is good enough but willing to give him a chance and if he doesnt do it next season ship him out.

Henderson is a good player with a lot of potential. Naive and ****s out of a tackle sometimes but he is going to be very good.

Enrique is quality but for god sake stop holding on to the ball for so long! He slows the play down when it doesnt need slowing down.

Suarez is a legend.

Downing seriously needs some confidence and to settle it in. You cant go from 12 goals and 14 assists one season to 0 and 0 the next. Again if he doesnt start showing what he can do by next season ship him out.

We need a WORLD class striker, right winger and central midfielder. I think that is all thats missing from taking us from being a decent team to title/top 4 challenging team.

[squaddie]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TksAXxoNCKo&feature=player_embedded"]Dalglish accuses players after 3-1 Bolton loss - YouTube[/ame]

[Bender]

Adam is a lazy lazy *******! He is a championship player. He seriously needs dropping and told to lose some weight and work on his fitness.

Carroll i dont think is good enough but willing to give him a chance and if he doesnt do it next season ship him out.

Henderson is a good player with a lot of potential. Naive and ****s out of a tackle sometimes but he is going to be very good.

Enrique is quality but for god sake stop holding on to the ball for so long! He slows the play down when it doesnt need slowing down.

Suarez is a legend.

Downing seriously needs some confidence and to settle it in. You cant go from 12 goals and 14 assists one season to 0 and 0 the next. Again if he doesnt start showing what he can do by next season ship him out.

We need a WORLD class striker, right winger and central midfielder. I think that is all thats missing from taking us from being a decent team to title/top 4 challenging team.

rubbish

[Muddled]

On paper, it was our strongest starting eleven - bar a suspended Suarez and an injured Lucas - and it looked like we were taking the game to Bolton. However, as Wiw mentioned in the match thread, it wasn't the right personnel to play the 4-4-2 we so rigidly set up with.

Poor performances from a few players you can cover, poor performances from nearly eight you can't. This was the game we *could* have won comfortably, pushing us up to fifth, closing in on fourth and one of those games that builds confidence; Bolton were playing with such a high-line and the space Bellamy could have exploited behind their centre-backs (due to pace) was huge, there was even more space behind their full-backs - we could have had so much of the ball out wide, yet we chose to build through the middle.

The early goal set us back, but the fact Bolton cut straight through the middle, said it all; Skrtel got caught tracking the ball and nobody filled in behind him. In terms of quality finishes, two of their goals were with perfect placement in the side netting. The second goal was down to Maxi not staying with Reo Coker- from memory - Adam had gone with the ball and should (maybe) did pass over Reo Coker to him, but Maxi stopped running and Reo Coker again went through the middle of our defence. Again.

Whilst this spurred us in to actually turning up, the half time whistle came too soon and if we'd played for another ten minutes, I think the impetus was with us and we could have gone in level. However, the second half started, we switched off at the corner, left yards of space around the penalty spot and another decent finish. Two early goals in each half - concentration maybe, or not knowing what to do?

From there, you would have expected a Liverpool onslaught, but kudos to Bolton, they continued to threaten and didn't even look to protect their lead. No eleven men behind the ball, but a desire to get a fourth. We retreated and accepted it ... it was sad to see.

Johnson and Enrique had poor games, mainly because they were played like puppets by their counterparts; they were closed quickly and Bolton doubled up, meaning pressure on the ball with their fullback *and* their widemen, meaning an instant attack if it broke to them.

In the centre of the park, Adam got a masterclass from Reo Coker, he was rash in the challenge, looked constantly off balance and made some really poor decisions on when to release the ball. Henderson was forced wide right and looked timid, Gerrard dropped deep but couldn't get any rhythm and Maxi had a poor game.

Carroll looked sharper, but still seems to lack the confidence (or desire) to cause a mischief. There was a moment in the first half (from memory), when the ball broke and Carroll went to the left, Bellamy over-lapped who got the ball - now Carroll should be looking to bust a gut to get in the box, instead he drifted left towards the touchline.

Bellamy, Agger and Reina are the only players who can hold their heads relatively high.

All-in-all, a terrible performance. It's been mentioned, this is down to Kenny with his team selection and tactics. We don't have an identity, we set-up to counter the team we are playing, as apposed to making the opposition worry about how they are going to deal with us. The most worrying aspect is how quickly we change in the game; Stoke, we had three centre backs looking after one striker and yesterday, we had a midfield that was being played through - this should have been addressed a lot quicker.

However, calling for Kenny's head is not the way forward. He's 12 months in to his *plan*, we are expecting instant results because we are Liverpool and we have Kenny Dalglish at the helm, we're changing (or hopefully finding) our gameplan. We will be bringing in and selling players to build a squad, with - hopefully - the latter purchase's being with the lure of Champions League. A trophy this year, Europa League next and then Champions League mixed with six transfer windows, could see a blueprint coming to fruition.

For those people saying Shelvey instead of Adam, it won't achieve anything in protecting our back four, Shelvey is currently a more balanced Adam, minus the passing range at the same pace.

For those people calling for our untested youngsters, it's too soon. Especially for Sterling, Suso and Morgan. As for Coady, maybe, but do we really want a youth player to come on with the pressure and nerves and then be part of a similar performance to yesterday? His confidence would be shot and he'd be blasted on the internets, before people look at the next person in the production line.

We've got the rest of January and a make or break week coming up to see how we react to this.

[Suarez]

Ian Ayre best **** off then

[Lecter]

Ian Ayre best **** off then

More chance of Purslow coming back than that happening

[Vermilion]

Days like yesterday are inevitable as we rebuild, i know it seems like we've been here before, and we have, but as far as the length of time Kenny has had, compared to the task he has of making us title conteneders, well imo it's no time.

Utd have left the field to howls of derision from their fans too of late, with fans accusing players of not trying or not being good enough, not just once either, same with Chelsea and Arsenal, teams that should be ahead of Kenny and his development of our squad really too.

So, were not alone, and the road will be long, the only way to shorten it is to very quickly invest around 200mill+ net, as the Chavs did under Maureen and City have recently.

Not going to happen.

Kenny has told the players what he thinks of yesterdays effort; or lack of it, lets see what the response is.

edit: I do actually think the up coming cup game had an effect on the players, this club is desperate for a trophy, they are human after all! That game is massive, then so is the final if we get there, hard for them not to think about that, even if it's in the subconcious.

[Suarez]

Days like yesterday are inevitable as we rebuild, i know it seems like we've been here before, and we have, but as far as the length of time Kenny has had, compared to the task he has of making us title conteneders, well imo it's no time.

Utd have left the field to howls of derision from their fans too of late, with fans accusing players of not trying or not being good enough, not just once either, same with Chelsea and Arsenal, teams that should be ahead of Kenny and his development of our squad really too.

So, were not alone, and the road will be long, the only way to shorten it is to very quickly invest around 200mill+ net, as the Chavs did under Maureen and City have recently.

Not going to happen.

Kenny has told the players what he thinks of that effort or lack of it, lets see what the response is.

I agree to an extent, we were never going to walk back into the top 4, but Kenny spent big on players with premier league experience for a reason (little to settling in time). After the rather large layout on these players we should've progressed, we should've moved onwards but sadly we haven't and it all comes down to the quality of the purchases.


That said, you only have to look at how long it took Citeh to make large progress after investing a few hundred million. It still took them a couple of years to get where they are now, and we've spent peanuts in comparison so we need to be realistic. We should only be competing realistically against sides who's squads cost much the same as ours.

[Vermilion]

I agree to an extent, we were never going to walk back into the top 4, but Kenny spent big on players with premier league experience for a reason (little to settling in time). After the rather large layout on these players we should've progressed, we should've moved onwards but sadly we haven't and it all comes down to the quality of the purchases.

True, right now it's hard to argue certain purchases aren't bad ones, but he was presented with a problem as soon as he came in, Torres wanted out and 50mill was available, fans needed to be appeased, we were out of europe and have no idea who was available at that time, and who would come to lfc at that time, Kenny and co did what they did, AC at the time was a player being talked about by many, the price was pathetic yes, but Newcastle knew our situation too, back then AC didn't look so bad, and he may yet come good, who really knows.

All i'm saying is that personally, deep down, i expected it to be like this for this season, and i was always more looking to next season as one i'd expect us to really push on more, and even then teams like Citeh/Chavs etc will probably be stronger, so progress is all relative.

[Muddled]

I agree to an extent, we were never going to walk back into the top 4, but Kenny spent big on players with premier league experience for a reason (little to settling in time). After the rather large layout on these players we should've progressed, we should've moved onwards but sadly we haven't and it all comes down to the quality of the purchases.

Yes, we bought players with Premier League experience - which means they know what happens when we turn up to play Stoke in December - it doesn't mean they all gel and hit the ground running playing for Liverpool, with our tactics etc.

[Bender]

the craziest thing of all is were still in with a shout for 4th place ! but some top signings are crucial

[Vermilion]

the craziest thing of all is were still in with a shout for 4th place ! but some top signings are crucial

[Exiled_red]

Days like yesterday are inevitable as we rebuild, i know it seems like we've been here before, and we have, but as far as the length of time Kenny has had, compared to the task he has of making us title conteneders, well imo it's no time.

Utd have left the field to howls of derision from their fans too of late, with fans accusing players of not trying or not being good enough, not just once either, same with Chelsea and Arsenal, teams that should be ahead of Kenny and his development of our squad really too.

So, were not alone, and the road will be long, the only way to shorten it is to very quickly invest around 200mill+ net, as the Chavs did under Maureen and City have recently.

Not going to happen.

Kenny has told the players what he thinks of yesterdays effort; or lack of it, lets see what the response is.

edit: I do actually think the up coming cup game had an effect on the players, this club is desperate for a trophy, they are human after all! That game is massive, then so is the final if we get there, hard for them not to think about that, even if it's in the subconcious.

I think the frustrating thing is that last season under Kenny we were on the whole great, in his time here last year we were the 2nd best team in the league with a long list of injuries, a small squad and some very average player. This season we were expecting to build on that. We now have decent sized squad with players who should be of Premiership quality, it seems we purposefully bought players with Premiership experience expecting them to settle in quickly and for us to be challenging for the title or at least be contenders for 3rd place. Our form this season has been very disappointing and probably worse than we saw under Kenny last season, while the recent performances have looked like we were seeing under Hodgson.

I think we all got carried away over the summer with what to expect this season.

[Suarez]

True, right now it's hard to argue certain purchases aren't bad ones, but he was presented with a problem as soon as he came in, Torres wanted out and 50mill was available, fans needed to be appeased, we were out of europe and have no idea who was available at that time, and who would come to lfc at that time, Kenny and co did what they did, AC at the time was a player being talked about by many, the price was pathetic yes, but Newcastle knew our situation too, back then AC didn't look so bad, and he may yet come good, who really knows.

Thats the big issue for me. The thing is Torres had been poor (for Torres) for a long time and as has been proven now, he's shot. He'll never return to the player he once was, so selling him at that time was the right decision. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

This is where I have an issue, I think you're right that the fans wanted to be appeased, but I think that those who run the club should've been tougher and said if the right player isn't available today, we wait until the next transfer season, and take the flack. At the end of the day Carroll was ****ed anyway wasn't he? He couldn't play for months because of his injury, so no big loss if we waited and got a better deal or someone better became available. The owners are there to make difficult decisions, and rushing into purchasing an injured player for 2 or 3 times his value was stupidity, the tougher decision would've been to wait.