Hillsborough

[kev776]

Aye, it was powerful stuff from him and his account of things brought the reality of their loss close to me.

Likewise, I was not overly impressed with anti wool/OOT/Scando comments. It was uncalled for and way out of order.

I have supported Liverpool fc all my life and will continue to until the day I die. I have actively supported them in the UK and throughout europe. I was not born in Liverpool or even Lancashire. I come from the east of england and now reside in Norway. THIS does not make me any less of a supporter than those fans who were born in Liverpool or the surrounding area.

Apologies for the mini rant (not the time and place) but I felt it had to be sent

I will be at the game againgst the mancs. As usual on my visits to Anfield, I will go to the memorial and my respects. As normal it will be an emotional time for me even though I never knew any of the 96 fellow reds who lost their lives doing one thing they loved, supporting Liverpool fc. This time around it will be slightly different as my wife and daughter will be with me for the first time. I know I will struggle to explain to my daughter the enormity of what happened, whilst also trying to re-assure her that she will be safe at the game

Good post I hope they both have a brilliant day.

[Pablo]

I didn't like his Scouse supremacist, anti-wool/OOT bollocks, nor did I like him saying the fight for justice would never be won. Also...and I got where he was coming from with this......belittling supporters/'wools' who have no direct association with the disaster (i.e didn't lose a loved one/friend) but who still care about it.

[Lecter]

Posted by a Bluenose on United We Stand

http://www.uwsonline.com/forum/showt...1-Hillsborough

I think I went to school with his older brother

[Captain Stu]

Thanks for the well-wishes chaps, as odd as it may sound - reading the documentation actually helps. I can never ask my Dad about what happened, he's relived it too many times already to have me sat down asking him for te gruesome details but I read two accounts of his yesterday in a 4hr session reading everything that related to my Uncle Dave and it just goes to show what a huge part luck played in all this.

They were at the semi final in 1988 too and went into pen 3 (where 83 died) but this year went into pen 4 (where "only" 8 died) so it could have been much worse. When the surge happened, he was forced left - could easily have been forced forwards. He was able to climb over a fence on the side and thinks he helped a girl over the fence... but can't be sure how alive she actually was.

Reading the police statements was interesting - some of them are just as much "victims" of what happened as people in the pens. No everyday copper on the beat should be ferrying dead bodies around, administering CPR to dozens of people in that way. The only difference being that compensation for their suffering was handed out pretty generously.

I take some solus in knowing that Dave wasn't a lost cause - there's supposedly lots of photos in existence (according to the coroners inquest) of fans rallying around, carrying him on hoarding and CPR being given. It's nice to know that at least some people there tried to help and if I ever could I would thank them for showing an ounce of humanity at a time when it seemed to be lost.

One gets the sense that yesterday was only the beginning.

Very much so.

Hillsborough: Result of lazy 1980s prejudices

That's basically it in a nutshell.

if it had been fans from United, West Ham, Chelsea, Millwall - they would have been similarly able to make lazy sterotype accusations stick as these were also fans who, at the time, had reputations for hooliganism but had it been a club without such a reputation - would it have stuck? I don't think so, I'm sure they would have tried but people may have been less willing to believe it.

And, as my Dad says, you have to remember that this all took place at a time when football fans were viewed as scum and were treated as such and the suggestion that the POLICE and *gasp* the GOVERNMENT might have lied was so absurd.

What an irrepressible cunt.

[Alex]

Reading back over the last 5 pages or so has been tough. Especially the accounts of people who were there. Don't know what to say to be honest.

[Tee]

Reading back over the last 5 pages or so has been tough. Especially the accounts of people who were there. Don't know what to say to be honest.

Me neither. I hope my lack of participation in this thread has not come across as not caring or being disrespectful in any way.

[Buzzo]

Looking at some of the images in the document it is staggering to think football matches were allowed to go ahead at a ground with this layout. Baring in mind that to the uninitiated supporter there is just no way off knowing that the tunnel to the 2 pens was not the only way into the Leppings Lane end, and that there were 2 other entrances (un signposted and to the side). And then looking at the size of the 2 pens at the end of the tunnel. The size of them... They are so tiny.

The authorities had created a perfect death trap and it just took the balls up by Duckenfield in allowing the exit gate to be opened to trigger it.

It seems staggering that this situation was allowed to exist. It seems even more staggering that this was allowed to exist given there had been previous instances of crushing. It would not have taken an expert in Health and safety to see the inherent dangers.

I've also looked at a couple of pics of the crush, one of which is so terrifying and from just one look makes me wonder how nobody acted quicker. Supporters (mainly kids) in utter distress.

The organisational **** up is a disgrace.

The cover up is disgusting. Seeing testimony scored out just leaves me cold.

The fact it has taken 23 years for disclosure of what happened is a national disgrace.

Football as ever seems so insignificant.

RIP 96.

YNWA.

[rushscored4]

I remember that. Did you go in the end?

I spoke to the fella from the S*n on the phone - he was a Scouse Liverpool fan so I questioned why he worked for the rag and he said he was a political journalist so he had nothing to do with any sports reporting and was not around in 1989 under MacKenzie.

I also listened to various people's opinions including the fella who introduced us so I decided to take the ticket (I paid him face value) but I still felt uncomfortable doing so.

[rushscored4]

Looking at some of the images in the document it is staggering to think football matches were allowed to go ahead at a ground with this layout. Baring in mind that to the uninitiated supporter there is just no way off knowing that the tunnel to the 2 pens was not the only way into the Leppings Lane end, and that there were 2 other entrances (un signposted and to the side). And then looking at the size of the 2 pens at the end of the tunnel. The size of them... They are so tiny.

If you read my witness statement at the Popper inquiry (link previously posted) you will see that's exactly what happened to me. I had a season ticket on the Kop at the time and had travelled as an away fan to many other grounds but had not been to Hillsborough before and never experienced a terrace with enclosed pens.

There was only one steward and totally inadequate signage so when you walked down the tunnel, and I could see the sun streaming through with the players warming up on the pitch, you had no idea you could not spread out to the sides of the terrace like at Anfield. That contributed as much to the tragedy in my opinion as the lack of police control on the day.

[rushscored4]

He's been lying so long he probably believes it. It'll be like a muscle reaction "Hillsborough? Yeah, Liverpool fans' fault"

I'm sure a lot of people would be interested to know Bettison's involvement on the day and his part in the subsequent cover up and smear campaign. The fact that he went on to become Chief Constable of Merseyside Police just 9 years after Hillsborough is unbelievable.

[rushscored4]

I'm sure a lot of people would be interested to know Bettison's involvement on the day and his part in the subsequent cover up and smear campaign. The fact that he went on to become Chief Constable of Merseyside Police just 9 years after Hillsborough is unbelievable.

Just found this Guardian article published today that shows the extent of Bettison's role as an integral part of the 'liaison unit' which issued "black propaganda" after Hillsborough:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...h-report-straw

As a South Yorkshire chief inspector and later superintendent, Bettison was a member of the internal review group or liaison unit on Hillsborough and, as such, the families say, he had a key role in presenting the police in the best light and blaming the fans for the disaster. The Labour MP Maria Eagle told parliament that the "liaison unit orchestrated what can only be described as a black propaganda campaign".

The Hillsborough report gave more detail on Bettison's role in presenting the police's case after the 96 deaths. The report states that Bettison was a key figure in a meeting with the police federation and MP Michael Shersby, who was supportive of the police's case. Bettison presented the meeting with a heavily edited video of the disaster – 29 minutes "culled" by him, the report states, from 65 hours of footage. It was accompanied by commentary from Bettison. The meeting, the report states, was held for the South Yorkshire police federation to present evidence to Shersby that would be helpful for him to present to parliament when the Hillsborough disaster was debated. At one point the report says Bettison's commentary stated that: "Perimeter fences were the result of hooliganism – walls demolished, missile attacks on police officers, supporters climbing perimeter fences, pitch invasion." The last problem was "thought to be the case at Hillsborough".

[Buzzo]

If you read my witness statement at the Popper inquiry (link previously posted) you will see that's exactly what happened to me. I had a season ticket on the Kop at the time and had travelled as an away fan to many other grounds but had not been to Hillsborough before and never experienced a terrace with enclosed pens.

There was only one steward and totally inadequate signage so when you walked down the tunnel, and I could see the sun streaming through with the players warming up on the pitch, you had no idea you could not spread out to the sides of the terrace like at Anfield. That contributed as much to the tragedy in my opinion as the lack of police control on the day.

It seems like such an easy thing to do.

Put some clear signs up, and have some stewards directing people. It doesn't cost anything and it would have saved lives.

As a nation we can seem obsessed with health and safety and red tape these days. But it seems we were quite the opposite not so long ago. Hopefully part of the legacy of the 96 is that nothing like this ever happens again.

Just to add to what others have said it has been very moving reading the accounts in this thread, and my heart goes out to anyone who was there and anyone who lost family or friends.

[EwarWoo]

Impossible really to find words adequate. Absolutely shocked at the scale of cover up.

But for those personally involved I hope it means something and helps in some way to get some truth and see a potential for justice.

[rushscored4]

Impossible really to find words adequate. Absolutely shocked at the scale of cover up.

But for those personally involved I hope it means something and helps in some way to get some truth and see a potential for justice.

Interesting hearing Brendan Rodgers saying he was a 16 year old boy when Hillsborough happened but it has taken until he is almost 40 for the truth to be accepted.

My eldest daughter was just 4 months old in April 1989 and now she has two children of her own. It's incredible that it has taken a whole generation to begin to get justice...

[Lecter]

Heres the offending article

Hillsborough tragedy

By Jason Beattie, David Collins, Rachael Bletchly

14 Sep 2012 00:00

A final insult: Hillsborough police chief continues to blame Liverpool fans despite report exonerating them


Sir Norman Bettison still insisted on turning the focus back on fans and also rejected calls to quit as furious relatives of the 96 Liverpool fans demanded his resignation


He was faced with a damning report that blamed police for blunders that led to the *Hillsborough disaster, but Sir Norman Bettison still insisted on turning the focus back on fans.

The Chief Constable of West Yorkshire Police last night also rejected calls to quit as furious relatives of the 96 Liverpool fans demanded his resignation.

And he risked further outrage by declaring supporters made matters worse on the day of the crush by hanging around outside the ground in the sun, making things “hard” for officers.

Sir Norman, 56, said he had read the conclusive report that revealed a *catalogue of errors by police and *ambulance crews led to the tragedy.

But he added: “I really welcome the disclosure of all the facts that can be known because I have absolutely nothing to hide. I read the report and that remains my position.

“Fans’ behaviour, to the extent that it was relevant at all, made the job of the police, in the crush outside Leppings Lane turnstiles, harder than it needed to be. But it didn’t cause the disaster any more than the sunny day that *encouraged people to linger outside the stadium as kick-off approached. I held those views then, I hold them now.”


Sir Norman’s statement comes despite the report “conclusively” showing the behaviour of Liverpool fans “neither caused nor contributed to the deaths of 96 men, women and children”.

His reaction was met by outrage by the families of the 96. Trevor Hicks, who lost two daughters at Hillsborough, called for the £213,000-a-year boss to quit. He said: “If he is anything of a man, he will stand down and scurry up a drainpipe.”

Hillsborough Families Support Group chairwoman Margaret Aspinall, whose 18-year-old son James, died in the *Sheffield tragedy, added: “Quite frankly I am quite angry about it. He should do the decent thing and resign, no matter what he is saying in his statement.

“He is still saying the fans made the job more difficult for the police.

“He ought to be ashamed of himself. Do the decent thing Mr Bettison, resign.”


Labour MP Andy Burnham, who was instrumental in setting up the Hillsborough panel, said Sir Norman’s comments contradicted Wednesday’s report and the previous inquiry by Lord Justice Taylor.

He said: “That’s not what the panel said. There was a failure of police control on the day and he shouldn’t be rewriting the Taylor report on a day like today.”

Home Affairs Select Committee chair Keith Vaz said it would not be right for serving officers from the day of the disaster “to stay in post” after the report blamed them.

Liverpool mayor Joe Anderson has also called for Sir Norman to be stripped of his Honorary Fellowship at the city’s John Moores *University. West Yorkshire Police Authority last night referred the report to a special committee.

Chairman, *Councillor Mark Burns-Williamson, warned: “Anyone involved in any wrongdoing should be prepared to face the consequences.” Sir Norman has been accused of spreading “black *propaganda” about Liverpool fans in the lead-up to the fatal 1989 crush.

But yesterday he denied being part of a team which doctored statements to place the South Yorkshire force in a better light. He added: “I never altered a statement nor asked for one to be altered.” In a further twist it emerged he gave *contradictory *statements about his involvement at the ground.

Sir Norman, who was a chief inspector at the time, was attending the game as a fan but has claimed he placed himself on duty after the mayhem began. He said in 1998, after being appointed Chief Constable of Merseyside to the fury of the Hillsborough families: “I saw the tragedy unfold. I left the ground at 3.25pm and drove to the nearest police station to put myself on duty and help in any way I could.

"Many people, who left the ground and were looking for friends and relatives, were arriving at the police station and I was given the task, helped by a group of other officers, of taking details of people who had become separated. We eventually opened a boys’ club next door to the station for people to wait. I went off duty at 6am the next day. That was the extent of my* *involvement on that day.”

But that now appears to have been a move to distance himself from the chaos at the ground and to give the impression he did not do any hands-on policing.

It did not reveal how he had originally claimed to have put himself on duty inside Hillsborough and tried to take control of junior officers.

In his first witness statement from May 1989, Sir Norman insisted he started trying to establish a casualty station, helped in resuscitation attempts, issued *instructions to officers and arranged a police cordon before going to a local police station to assist with relatives.

And yesterday’s statement said: “As soon as I realised the unfolding tragedy I put myself on duty, giving immediate assistance behind the South Stand. I later set up a receiving centre at a local police station for supporters who had become separated from friends and family.”


Sir Norman’s colleague at the time, Chief *Superintendent David *Duckenfield, tried to blame fans for the disaster.

But the hard-hitting report revealed 164 police statements were altered, the dead, including children, were given blood alcohol tests and criminal record checks were carried out by police in what is being called the biggest cover-up in British history.

And, shockingly, up to 41 of the 96 could potentially have been saved had it not been for the blunders of police and ambulance crews, it said.

MPs suggested Sir Norman should be stripped of his knighthood and David Cameron refused to give his backing to the under-fire chief constable. One of 450,000 documents examined by the Hillsborough Independent Panel, shows in the weeks after the disaster Sir Norman claimed *Liverpool fans were “aggressive” and attacked squad cars and match officials during the rescue operation. He claimed many were without tickets.

But a recent statement also appears to tone down those views about the supporters and their behaviour.

Shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper last night insisted there should be an inquiry by the *Independent Police Complaints Commission into the cover-up that has shamed the *establishment.


Sir Norman Bettison, the top cop who rose from cadet and 'played a part in cover-up'

Born in Rotherham, South Yorkshire, Bettison left comprehensive school at 16 to join the local police.

Starting as a cadet, he was a chief inspector at the time of Hillsborough.

Later, as a superintendent, he was part of the internal group that reviewed the disaster and, say families, had a key role in the cover-up. Bettison, now 56, became West Yorks Assistant Chief Constable in 1993 and five years later Merseyside Chief Constable – outraging victims’ families.

After being in charge of police training, he was made West Yorks Chief Constable. He says health and safety “Taliban” hamper police and called the conviction of Met Police for the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes “a disaster for common sense”.

Bettison, who has degrees and an FBI qualification, was knighted in 2006.

He has said that police deserve “unequivocal support”, writing: “You don’t value something until you are in danger of losing it.”