Mancs Post Match

[Reece]

This is making me more angry the more I think about it

I've never gone along with this whole "conspiracy" thing, but it's looking more and more blatant that certain people are getting favourable decisions! Why is it being left to random bloggers/forumers to highlight it though? Why does no one in the press have the balls to highlight it?

Alas, nothing will be done anyway, so it's all pretty futile.

[Shaggy]

Is the Jeff Winter account genuine?

Yep

[Shaggy]

This dude on Twitter is getting all defensive.

@PLPhilD - he is, according to his bio, 'Head of PR for the Premier League and Professional Game Match Officials'. He claims Foy is "being rotated" LOL. Remarkable coincidence

Philip Dorward @PLPhilD
@AFCAMDEN Foy and Atkinson done the most PL games this season (5) and average of other refs is 3.6 games. Hence rotation.

[Alex]

The **** ref's are the ones who need to be rotated. If a Ref ****s up in a couple of games drop him down the league a bit (Halsey) Not bomb someone down to League 2 because he has done 5 games this season.

[dom9]

This is making me more angry the more I think about it

I've never gone along with this whole "conspiracy" thing, but it's looking more and more blatant that certain people are getting favourable decisions! Why is it being left to random bloggers/forumers to highlight it though? Why does no one in the press have the balls to highlight it?

Alas, nothing will be done anyway, so it's all pretty futile.

Exactly this Reece.

Now that people are starting to piece together the evidence rather than just complaining about inidividual games ad decisions, a compelling case is being presented, a case which should be answered by the authorities.

United are starting to run out of referees.

[DKdan]

If we really want something done about it, we need to gather information solid enough for a journo to risk sticking his neck out.

It must be clear cut, and backed up. And it must be "easy" on the eye. Journos are lazy *******s, so we will probably almost need to write the damn article.

If the info is solid enough, I'm sure there are a few good journos who will run it. We can find them and reveal the info to them on twitter. But it must be some of the big papers in order to have an effect.

What papers/TV Channels would you say, is the most powerful at shaping the public opinion on sports matters?

[baitman]

and shouldnt we be letting the manc game thread go, and collate this chat/evidence in the new, shiny thread...
What Abysmal Refereeing Decisions Are You Pissed Off About At The Moment?

it is currently in the Liverpool FC section, but would maybe be better in the general football section, as its surely relevant to all football

mods?

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=82387

[draize]

Chris Foy hasn't reffed a League Two game since 2007

Mike Dean was the referee when Blackburn beat Utd 2-3 at Old Trafford last Christmas. He hasn't refereed a Utd game since.

Dean also reffed United's defeat to Chelsea in 2010. He was immediately demoted to the Championship.

Dean did the Southampton v Utd game last month

[Vermilion]

Dean did the Southampton v Utd game last month

And it was questioned as to whether he was on the utd payroll too after his performance

3rd Comment from bottom.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2196895/PREMIER-LEAGUE-LIVE-Newcastle-v-Aston-Villa-Southampton-v-Manchester-United.html

[Daniel 7]

I haven't given this any thought but off the top of my head...Transparency would be a start. Complete separation of judicial and organisational responsibilities. And neutral bodies (including the FA and referees organisations) should not be limited companies but paid for by a levy on all professional clubs and led by people without a financial interest in football.

And Gordon Taylor should have his lips sewn together.

Baron de Montesque for the FA!

[Neil Young]

He's probably a bit too modern for them though.

[Reece]

Premier League denies Foy demotion
October 3, 2012

By ESPN staff

The Premier League has denied that Chris Foy's officiating of a League Two game this weekend is as a result of a demotion, following recent criticism aimed at the referee from Sir Alex Ferguson.

Foy was on the wrong end of a furious Ferguson on Saturday, with the Manchester United manager blaming him for his side's 3-2 defeat to Tottenham.

The referee was accused of turning down two clear penalties as well as only playing four minutes of injury time.

The Merseyside official has been given the League Two clash between Accrington Stanley and Rochdale this Saturday in the wake of Ferguson's rant.

However, Premier League bosses insist Foy has not been demoted and have backed his Old Trafford performance.

"There is absolutely no truth in suggestions Chris has been demoted or punished in some way," spokesman Phil Dorward said. "The fact is it is his turn to officiate at a League game this weekend.

"Chris has refereed more Premier League games than most this season and there is a rota system in place.

"We have been delighted with the standard of Chris's performances. He's having a good season."

Foy was embroiled in controversy last season after coming under fire for his performance in Tottenham's 2-1 defeat to Stoke, leading Spurs fans to take to Twitter to abuse the official, only to mistake him for Olympic cyclist Chris Hoy.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1178898/premier-league-deny-chris-foy-demotion?cc=5739

[Neil Young]

That would be more credible if they charged Ferguson and hadn't 'rotated' him for the very next game.

And when I say more credible, I mean remotely credible.

[Shaggy]

Corruption and Influence Peddling in the English Game


Please follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/DimmyBad

After I wrote my last piece, http://diminbeirut.typepad.com/my-bl...out-there.html, on Manchester United’s relationship with the FA, I was taken aback by the response I had.The post has gotten around 30,000 hits in the last 48 hours alone. I suggest to people who haven’t read it to jump to that post now as it gives a lot of background on what we will look at in this article.

As stated in my previous post, the fortunes of the institutions surrounding football in the UK will be negatively hit should any proof of corruption come out. It is naturally in their interest not to investigate the matter. In fact, the managers that have come out and questioned the refereeing selection process (Rafa Benitez, Andre Villas Boas) have been turned into laughing stocks by the English press corps.

So, investigate some more I did. And some of the stuff I found out surprised even me.

During United’s title winning 2010/11 season, they only lost 4 league games. I looked at who refereed those games and how long they then spent without being assigned Manchester United games as well their subsequent trend of behavior towards United.



Michael Oliver took charge of their first defeat, the February 2011 2-1 loss at Wolves. He was not given another Manchester United game to referee until December 2011. Since then, Oliver has had 2 United games.

United have won both, with Oliver refusing to give a clear Fulham penalty in the 1-0 United win late last season at Old Trafford; a game came right at the end of the title race. A few weeks ago, Oliver gave United a penalty for a shocking dive by Danny Welbeck in the home win against Wigan.



The second game United lost was away to Chelsea. Martin Atkinson was the referee then and some of his decisions incurred the wrath of Alex Ferguson. Atkinson was not given another United game to referee for an ENTIRE YEAR.

Atkinson was further punished with his decisions that went against United that day. He was not given a single premier league game to referee for a full month. Even worse, he was subsequently given 3 lower league games to referee that season- when he’d previously not officiated a single one that campaign.

It seems that Atkinson was given a clear message that day.



The 3rd United loss came at Anfield, where a Dirk Kuyt hat trick secured a 3-1 home win. The referee that day was Phil Dowd. He was criticized by Ferguson for not sending Jamie Carragher off. In the very next United game Dowd refereed, he gave them a penalty which secured a 1-1 draw at Blackburn and their 19th league title.

Giving United penalties in the very next game you referee them after having been criticized is a trend we’ll soon notice.



The final United loss of the 2010/11 season came at the Emirates, where Chris Foy refereed a 1-0 Arsenal win. It will come to no surprise to people to know that Foy was subsequently not assigned a United league game for, again, AN ENTIRE YEAR.

He did however referee 2 United games in the cups during that time. The first was in the Carling Cup against Crystal Palace. He awarded United a penalty. The second was at City in the FA Cup. United got a penalty and Vincent Kompany was sent off early in the game.

To resume, we’ve just analyzed what happened to the 4 referees that officiated United’s 4 league losses in the 2010/11 season. 2 of them were not given any more United league games for a full year (Atkinson and Foy), a third for 9 months (Oliver). 2 of those referees gave United penalties in the very next game (Foy and Dowd) they took charge of and one refused to give a blatant one to the opponents (Oliver). Martin Atkinson, was not given premier league games to officiate for an entire month and assigned to 3 lower league games.



I also looked at Mike Jones after prompting from the comments board. Jones refereed the 1-1 home draw with Newcastle last season and incorrectly awarded Demba Ba a penalty.

Subsequently, Jones was not given a single football game, at ANY level, to referee for an entire month. The next United game he was handed came a few months later, the 2-0 home win against Stoke which saw… You guessed it: 2 penalties awarded to Manchester United which, according to reports, were “very soft”.

How about Mark Halsey? Well, when he gave WBA a debatable penalty in the 1-1 draw at Old Trafford in May 2005 it was his 5th United game that season. He then also went an ENTIRE YEAR without being given any United games to referee. From 5 games in a season to none for a year. His record since then? He’s refereed 11 Man Utd games which have seen 11 United wins: the latest coming at Anfield, where 3 controversial decisions went the away team’s way.

In terms of trends, considering what we discovered about Alan Wiley and Mark Clattenburg (whose record with no United games to referee now stands at 36 league games since he took charge of the 6-1 home loss to City), there’s enough to make you wonder what exactly is going on in the referee selection process. It also ties in perfectly with ex referee Jeff Winter's comments about The FA being reticent to assign United games to referees Ferguson has criticized in the past.

The whole world revolves around incentives and punishment. From a young age, kids are brought up that way. Positive and negative reinforcement are at the very core of child psychology. You can’t blame people who are well aware of the punishment awaiting them (through the form of demotions and suspension from future United games) if they’d rather go for the safe option of keeping Ferguson happy.

I don’t blame the referees.

The people I blame are the ones that are letting this happen. The media who have not uttered a peep or written a single article about this for 2 decades. The FA who run the game in this country and have allowed this situation to fester. The clubs who see no issue with having David Gill, United's CEO, on the board of the FA. And of course, the PGMOB: the people who regulate officiating in England



The person at the head of the PGMOB and who is in charge of selecting which referee gets handed which game is Mike Riley, an ex professional referee who is most famous for giving a penalty for a clear dive by Wayne Rooney in the 2004 Man United 2-0 win against Arsenal which ended the Gunners 49 game unbeaten streak.

Riley was accused of pro United favoritism throughout his career. For younger readers, he’s my generation’s Howard Webb.

According to the Guardian’s research, which goes to back to the beginning of the 1997-98 season until 2004, “Riley refereed 23 United games in all competitions and gave 12 penalties for United in that time, but only three against them. And he has sent off five of United's opponents.

At Old Trafford, Riley's record is weighted even more heavily in favor of United: He gave 10 penalties in the 14 games he officiated to the home side, Manchester United.”

Riley’s bias was so suspected than when was awarded the Everton vs Man Utd FA Cup semi final to officiate in 2009, David Moyes actually called for an investigation on whether Riley was a United supporter.

This is the man who now decides which premier league games to assign to referees.

Add that to everything we’ve found out: the year long waits for referees who take charge of United losses to be given another United game to officiate, the penalties that are given to United in said referees next United games, the punishment for making mistakes that cost United points (Atkinson’s month long suspension from premier league games, Jones’ 1 month suspension from ALL PROFESSIONAL games), the comments from ex referee Jeff Winter (see my previous post), the fact that 18% of Howard Webb’s career penalties have gone to Manchester United,the retirement of Alain Wiley after being called unfit by Alex Ferguson and, of course, the presence of David Gill inside the FA and surely there’s enough there for some investigative journalist in the UK to actually look more into this.

If only to put the millions of football fans’ across the world’s minds at ease.

Because we could all be wrong and all of this may just be a set of freakish coincidences. Maybe English football is squeaky clean like they make us believe and the referee selection process is completely unbiased.

Maybe we’re just paranoid…



Or maybe not… Chris Foy failed to give Manchester United a penalty in their 3-2 loss to Spurs last Saturday. The PGMOB have not handed Foy a Premier League game to referee next weekend: instead, he will referee in League 2 for the first time in more than 4 years.

Mike Jones meanwhile, who missed a blatant penalty on Luis Suarez at Norwich, will take charge of West Brom vs QPR in the Premier League. Finally, Howard Webb (who sent off Jordi Gomez on Saturday; a red card today rescinded by the FA) will take charge of Newcastle’s home game against…Manchester United.

Why did Foy’s errors on Saturday lead to his demotion to the lowest professional league in England while Webb’s and Jones’ mistakes didn’t cost them?

I guess we all know the answer to that question…

http://www.diminbeirut.typepad.com/

[yamiedo]

There should be a movement started to bring this light. The accusations have been many but they are silenced or ridiculed (Rafa). Everybody should read these facts and it should be investigated. Juventus couldn't get away with it, why should Man Utd?