Why haven't we won the league for so long..?

[Slim]

And by the way when was the last time arsenal won the league? Going on your arguments arsenal should have sacked wenger this year for not winning the championship for 5 years.

Whilst I totally agree with your argument Tom, to be fair Arsenal did last win the league in 2004 - their unbeaten season.

[Harv]

Yesterday, after spending 45 quid on a ticket, when I was singing YNWA at 3-0 down in the 90th minute against a big rival, looking at a ****e, clueless team playing wank football, as far away from winning the title as ever.

That was the last time I actually 'supported' Liverpool.

So get a ****ing grip and stop trying to imply I'm any less of a fan than yourself just because I'm being realistic.

Your so heroic AA:whatever:

[Tom]

Whilst I totally agree with your argument Tom, to be fair Arsenal did last win the league in 2004 - their unbeaten season.

Thanks for the correction mr Slim.

[Tom]

Arsenal have spent far, far less than us the past ten years and have picked up league titles Tom.

That blows your half baked little theory into ashes, doesn't it ?

We've spent, wait for it....over 200 million pounds in the past seven years!

This is MORE THAN ENOUGH to challenge for the title on a regular basis.

We're 9th in the table, for Christ's sake.

The difference between us Jamo is that I'm a realist and you're a romantic. I look at the evidence, the bottom line. I look at the respective spending powers of the championship winning clubs compared to us and take note. Arsenal are a rarity, they have backed their manager over an extended period. It's a good model and the only real alternative we have. We should follow it if we are to have any chance of winning the prem without investment. Even then it's hardly quaranteed as there are so many other variables involved. Sacking rafa will make no difference whatsover. As said previously, who do you think could do a better job?

[Mumsafan]

The difference between us Jamo is that I'm a realist and you're a romantic. I look at the evidence, the bottom line. I look at the respective spending powers of the championship winning clubs compared to us and take note. Arsenal are a rarity, they have backed their manager over an extended period. It's a good model and the only real alternative we have. We should follow it if we are to have any chance of winning the prem without investment. Even then it's hardly quaranteed as there are so many other variables involved. Sacking rafa will make no difference whatsover. As said previously, who do you think could do a better job?

I think the difference is actually about 25 years but hey!

[Diego]

Carragher's been woeful so far this season.

I'd play Agger and Sami in the next game.

after yesterday never, cara and agger full stop...

[Diego]

There's no point discussing this any further Tom.

I think 80 million pounds spent in three years is more than enough to challenge for the title, you dont.

Fair enough.

my only problem is that those 70 - 80 million were used to replace about 12 players in the squad, it was not used to strengthen our squad further, but to buy new players in stead of old ones, and we got rid of alot of deadwood, and used that money to strengthen the squad, how many players has rafa bought? we havent had the money to pay big bucks for a sigle top player, thats the **** he's working through...

[CAD]

I said at the beginning of the season that we wouldn't win the championship, it amazes me that people actually think we can compete with the squad and money we have. It's not a difficult equation to comprehend. 80 million sounds a lot but it's not when you compare it to chelski and utd. We're 4 points of 3 rd place believe it or not and that's actually closer than we were this time last year. We'll be fighting it out with arsenal - a club of similar financial assets - at the end of the season. We'll probably get to the quarter finals of the champions league and win one of the domestic cups. We will not, anytime soon, compete for the championship, whoever is put in charge of the team.

I know realism isn't rampant on football message boards, but there you have it. There is only one possibility to compete realistically and that's massive investment. And even that doesn't gurantee instant success. Ask ranieri.

The voice of reason as always Tom

The 80 mill£ is a myth! It's a fool who operates with these numbers. I do agree that some of Rafa's actions and decisions has been far from optimal at times but there is a mighty big difference between being handed 80 mill £ and being handed 40 mill £ and a squad that you have to dissect and sell off like Gorden Gekko in Wallstreet to make ends meet. Progress is slow when you operate like that.

People underestimated what 5 mill£ is for LFC. The difference between 12 mill£ Alves and 7 mill£ Pennant is noticeable in a club who had 6,4 mill surplus last year and 21 mill deficit in 2004! Which brings us back to Moores again yadidada etc etc...

[Needles]

Tom...

I completely agree with you. There is just not enough money there for the quality of players that we need. I also think there is a problem with the academy. I think that the academy should not be run as a separate entity which I believe it currently is. The manager should have say over the youth policy of the club. Since the academy came into inception I don't think we have produced one premiership class player. (Didn't Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher sign for the club before the academy was sorted out. Also we would have released Gerrard if Houllier hadn't spotted him - says a lot about our academy!) I also believe that Benitez was given the managers job because he won titles on shoe-string budgets. This was the same reason Shankly was brought in - he could run a club on a shoe-string budget. I think there needs to be a change in attitude and thinking in the boardroom like there was in Shankly's time. I think Rafa is the right man for the job but he needs to be given money. I like the fact Moores is a Liverpool man through and through ut he if he loves the club this much then I would suggest to him that the time has come pass the reigns onto someone else who can give the manager the resources he so desperately needs.

[anfieldanfield]

The difference between us Jamo is that I'm a realist and you're a romantic. I look at the evidence, the bottom line. I look at the respective spending powers of the championship winning clubs compared to us and take note. Arsenal are a rarity, they have backed their manager over an extended period. It's a good model and the only real alternative we have. We should follow it if we are to have any chance of winning the prem without investment. Even then it's hardly quaranteed as there are so many other variables involved. Sacking rafa will make no difference whatsover. As said previously, who do you think could do a better job?

You're the realist, dont make me chuckle.

When have I ever stated I wanted Rafa gone ?

Need a clue ? Never.

As I said on a different thread, Rafa's got us into this mess, Rafa needs to get us out of it, although incidentally I do think there are several managers who could do a better job than Rafa, if Benitez left tomorrow, Hiddink would be top of my list.

Last season there wasn't much difference between ourselves and Man Utd, fair statement ?

We then spent MORE money than Man Utd in the summer, who are now topping the table, work that one out while we are pissing about in ninth place.

Rafa's been heavily, heavily backed and in all honesty, in terms of the league, we're as far away as ever.

Besides, I wouldn't want to give Rafa more money to spend at the moment, if he genuinely rated Pennant at 7m, who knows what he's capable of...

[Diego]

We then spent MORE money than Man Utd in the summer, who are now topping the table, work that one out while we are pissing about in ninth place.

that doesn't matter, when they only need one player and can buy him for 18 mill, and we need 5 players and pay 25-30, ferguson already has his squad, he just has to strengthen it with a few players what ever it costs, rafa needed to replace it, 80 mill is piss over 3 years concidering how many we've had to replace...

[Tom]

You're the realist, dont make me chuckle.

When have I ever stated I wanted Rafa gone ?

Need a clue ? Never.

As I said on a different thread, Rafa's got us into this mess, Rafa needs to get us out of it, although incidentally I do think there are several managers who could do a better job than Rafa, if Benitez left tomorrow, Hiddink would be top of my list.

Last season there wasn't much difference between ourselves and Man Utd, fair statement ?

We then spent MORE money than Man Utd in the summer, who are now topping the table, work that one out while we are pissing about in ninth place.

Rafa's been heavily, heavily backed and in all honesty, in terms of the league, we're as far away as ever.

Besides, I wouldn't want to give Rafa more money to spend at the moment, if he genuinely rated Pennant at 7m, who knows what he's capable of...

Tsk. Such bad faith: You continously ignore the realities of our financial situation to shore up your flakey arguments about the *huge* amounts of money we've supposedly spent - conveniently ignoring the fact that we've had to do an almost total team rebuild.

You conveniently ignore the fact that over the past few years (I'm not just taking your highly selective approach of using utd's spending for this year only) we have been hugely outspent by the top two.

You criticise current signings like pennant when you know that we tried to sign Alves - and couldn't afford him, which incidentally supports my main argument about not having the finance to challange. You then conveniently forget to mention who we should have bought instead of pennant for 7 million. I don't know of many or any world class players we could have bought for that position for that kind of money.

Gus Hiddink? Hmmm not exactly tearing up trees at the moment is he? Won, one european cup like our current manager and doesn't speak english.....great choice not......

[Jayesh87]

Rafa needs to practise on football manager

[red g]

You're the realist, dont make me chuckle.

When have I ever stated I wanted Rafa gone ?

Need a clue ? Never.

As I said on a different thread, Rafa's got us into this mess, Rafa needs to get us out of it, although incidentally I do think there are several managers who could do a better job than Rafa, if Benitez left tomorrow, Hiddink would be top of my list.

Last season there wasn't much difference between ourselves and Man Utd, fair statement ?

We then spent MORE money than Man Utd in the summer, who are now topping the table, work that one out while we are pissing about in ninth place.

Rafa's been heavily, heavily backed and in all honesty, in terms of the league, we're as far away as ever.

Besides, I wouldn't want to give Rafa more money to spend at the moment, if he genuinely rated Pennant at 7m, who knows what he's capable of...

arguably scholes and solksjaer are like having 2 newplayers. Giggs is like a man posseseed this yr. they play as a team , because that team has been together for yrs

[carheex]

Me too, there's some ****ing naive people on these forums if the general belief is that we haven't won the league because we haven't had enough money to spend.

Care to enlighten us "naive" fans on what you deem to be the actual reasons for us not winning the league?