Is it time the clock really started ticking?

[Imy]

I suppose i'm more negative than many on here.
But us winning the league or even being in the race is akin to Everton signing that £20m player, the deal that always falls through.

We're too far behind on and off the pitch, we take one step forward but so does the other teams out in front overhauling Arsenal and Spurs will be a challenge never mind the big spenders at City, Chavs and Utd.

[Scaramanga]

You see I think the mentality can be instilled immedaitely if you have those type of players. We do not have enough of them, clearly.

Interesting. When I look at ManU, i wouldnt say that the likes of Carrick, Smalling, Jones, Young, Valencia, Anderson or Welbeck have that mentality. For me, that drive comes from Fergusson and the regime of fear he instills in the players to not lose.

So for me, it isnt a winning mentality that is needed, it is the desire not to lose (and the repercussions of the hairdrier treatment in front of all your team mates when you, as an individual or a collective, do not perform). You can see that determination in Utd now having lost last year - they have been ruthless.

[Tee]

Interesting. When I look at ManU, i wouldnt say that the likes of Carrick, Smalling, Jones, Young, Valencia, Anderson or Welbeck have that mentality. For me, that drive comes from Fergusson and the regime of fear he instills in the players to not lose.

So for me, it isnt a winning mentality that is needed, it is the desire not to lose (and the repercussions of the hairdrier treatment in front of all your team mates when you, as an individual or a collective, do not perform). You can see that determination in Utd now having lost last year - they have been ruthless.

Agree mate, some valid points. And it is interesting that we have been successful (and damn hard to beat at times) when we have had strict disciplined Managers at the club, i.e. Houllier and Rafa.

[Arn]

No offence taken mate. Not sure Rafa did more with less. He had some world class players at his disposal not to mention players like Hyypia, Mascherano, Torres, Gerrard, Alonso, Reina, Carragher in their prime. Whichever way you look at it, he couldn't take a team with that core of talent and win the title. There was also a lot less competition in his day for the title. He had the benefit of a team in the Champions League but he also made some horrendous signings. Some of his deals towards the end of his reign hindered us too. Yes, to an extent his hands were tied by Hicks and Gillett, but he also spent a fair wedge of money even still

I don't accept us not winning the title in 20 odd years. For LFC that's unacceptable. At the moment, we just don't have enough quality players or enough quality in the squad to get near challenging. I'm not sure we can even attract it, especially the established ones. We need to implement a style of play that will want quality players to play for us regardless of whether we've been a success or not, a bit like Arsenal. They have the ability to attract the likes of Cazorla, Podolski etc because of the style of play

The main reason IMO to the Rafa success was that he couldn't afford to think both short and long term, he had to think short term.

Only at the end he could afford to think short and long term after he built up the squad with some fantastic players like Torres, Mascherano, Lucas, Agger, Skrtel, Johnson, Reina.........

He wasn't even allowed to think long term because he didn't control the academy.

Short term was the only option and he signed the players we needed short term.

[Sarb]

Agree mate, some valid points. And it is interesting that we have been successful (and damn hard to beat at times) when we have had strict disciplined Managers at the club, i.e. Houllier and Rafa.

But they never won the title either. We've never really had the right balance

Not sure about others, but I'd love to have seen how Pelligrini would have got on had we appointed him instead of Hodgson

[Arn]

Interesting. When I look at ManU, i wouldnt say that the likes of Carrick, Smalling, Jones, Young, Valencia, Anderson or Welbeck have that mentality. For me, that drive comes from Fergusson and the regime of fear he instills in the players to not lose.

So for me, it isnt a winning mentality that is needed, it is the desire not to lose (and the repercussions of the hairdrier treatment in front of all your team mates when you, as an individual or a collective, do not perform). You can see that determination in Utd now having lost last year - they have been ruthless.

So we would need to get in a manager that is bigger than all the egos in the squad and give him 100% power to do whatever he want?

There is no chance IMO that Rodgers would be able to stay if started to give out hairdrier treatments. He hasn't won enough to do that.

he would lose the dressing room IMO.

[Sarb]

So we would need to get in a manager that is bigger than all the egos in the squad and give him 100% power to do whatever he want?

There is no chance IMO that Rodgers would be able to stay if started to give out hairdrier treatments. He hasn't won enough to do that.

he would lose the dressing room IMO.

We wouldn't be able to attract any established manager when we start judging managers after about 3 months!

[Arn]

But they never won the title either. We've never really had the right balance

Not sure about others, but I'd love to have seen how Pelligrini would have got on had we appointed him instead of Hodgson

Do you really believe that we wouldn't have won the title with Rafa as manager if he would have had FSG as owners back then?

It wasn't down to Rafa that we didn't won the league title. That was down to our owners Gillett and Hicks IMO.

[Sarb]

Do you really believe that we wouldn't have won the title with Rafa as manager if he would have had FSG as owners back then?

It wasn't down to Rafa that we didn't won the league title. That was down to our owners Gillett and Hicks IMO.

Personally, I wouldn't put money on Rafa winning the title under FSG. I think he was too negative at times and certain games, especially against the lesser teams. At a point I believe he certainly had the squad to win the title, but he didn't do it

[Neil Young]

I agree with Arn. He got us very close once. If he had been able to build the squad a bit more, the players would have more experience of competing at the very top, he would have learned from his mistakes, then I have no doubt he'd have won us the title.

His signings towards the end were also dictated by the financial constraints. It wasn't just short-term thinking, it was the best we could get. The only way we were sure to improve the first team from where he got us was by competing for the very best players, i.e. buying £30m players. We couldn't do that so he took risks on players with the requisite talent but who cost less because of dodgy injury records, etc. And the risks didn't work out.

Hicks and Gillett fatally compromised Benitez's time at Liverpool, it's absolutely clearcut for me.

[Mattshark]

But we have spent big! Just on the wrong type of players, profiled for age, nationality and resale values...i.e. moneyball!! We cannot go down that road alone right now and need to bring in better short term value for that kind of money.

We have not followed moneyball.


Seriously mate, Carroll, Adam and Downing and resale value?

[Scaramanga]

So we would need to get in a manager that is bigger than all the egos in the squad and give him 100% power to do whatever he want?

There is no chance IMO that Rodgers would be able to stay if started to give out hairdrier treatments. He hasn't won enough to do that.

he would lose the dressing room IMO.

No, I would hope that there is a better balance to be found. What is clear to me however is that, Guardiola aside, most very successful managers are older and more respected by the players than most of the managers we have had in the recent past.

Mourinho is probably another exception but then he has brought the winning mentality with him wherever he has gone. He is a winner and he instills that belief in the players.

Would I want Fergie in charge if it meant that we won the league? Absolutely not! The guy is a tool.

[Shackanory]

Give up on this signing Alonso crap. Never going to happen in a million years, IF he left Madrid (which he won't) he's much more likely to sign for Man U, Man C or Chelsea ahead of us in the PL.
Then factor in where Mourinho ends up (if not at any of the 3 PL clubs

Have a word with yourself. If Xabi was to come back to England, which I doubt, it would only be for us.

[Tee]

We have not followed moneyball.


Seriously mate, Carroll, Adam and Downing and resale value?

Matt, we so totally did go down the moneyball route and we ****ed it up. Of course we thought those players would have 'decent' resale value due to their ages mainly and the fact they are British. What a bunch of ****s we made ourselves look like.

[Tee]

I agree with Arn. He got us very close once. If he had been able to build the squad a bit more, the players would have more experience of competing at the very top, he would have learned from his mistakes, then I have no doubt he'd have won us the title.

His signings towards the end were also dictated by the financial constraints. It wasn't just short-term thinking, it was the best we could get. The only way we were sure to improve the first team from where he got us was by competing for the very best players, i.e. buying £30m players. We couldn't do that so he took risks on players with the requisite talent but who cost less because of dodgy injury records, etc. And the risks didn't work out.

Hicks and Gillett fatally compromised Benitez's time at Liverpool, it's absolutely clearcut for me.

I agree with you Neil.