Simon Mignolet

[Fredo]

Yes. Good point about Barthez. He was an excellent keeper but prone to clangers but due to his nature as he took a lot of risks.

Mignolet is the opposite though. Prone to clangers due to his lack of decisiveness.

[RedReet]

There is nothing wrong with discussing areas for improvement but it quickly turns into "Sell Him, he's rubbish, if we had kept Pepe Reina we'd have conceded less goals...."

I'm sure people used to laugh at David De Gea and he's now a top keeper. Mignolet moving from a small club like Sunderland with no expectations to a huge club has been a titanic move for him. His 'faults' can all be improved but elite shot stopping is something keepers seem to have or don't have. He's one of the best around at the position so us spending another **** load of money improving a strength of the team would be utter folly IMO. Spend it on just acquiring more talent for the squad.

Fair post.

[captainfog]

He's young and is improving, but still has a long way to go. It would be a ruthless but arguably justifiable decision to replace him this summer. Or we could give him another season and see how he goes. I'm fine with either option.

[Norbs]

If we win the league then it wont matter, imo. He can stay and be crap for as long as he likes

[RedReet]

If you can't stop conflating poor defensive record with poor goalkeeping record, then you're right there is no point. It's pretty disingenuous use of stats, clearly more than a keeper's ability affects the goals conceded column.

The responses you received go directly against that point, which you made in the larger part of your post...



Everyone knows we haven't been up to scratch defensively, it's not news. Pointing out the flaws in your argument aren't ignorance of that in any way, it's just a valid criticism of a lousy use of stats.

I’m obviously not blaming Mignolet for all the goals we concede, but as goalkeeper he surely has to take a large share of the blame, just like he’ll take the acclaim when we keep clean sheets, and rightly so.

If people are going to point to the league table to justify their argument that we’ve improved our goalkeeping position, then of course it’s fair of me to point to our defensive record. I wouldn’t go as far to say that I agree with Grobelaar that we could win the league despite Mignolet, but I do think bar the penalty save he’s relatively low on my list of contributors.

Perhaps I’d have been better highlighting the stats in the thread that provoked my response, then it would have been clearer that I was using them to support a larger argument, rather than as an actual barometer of Mig’s ability. I didn’t want to do that though as I didn’t wanted to avoid another tit for tat Mig/Pepe argument, but this isn’t much better.

[Red_Polo]

I’m obviously not blaming Mignolet for all the goals we concede, but as goalkeeper he surely has to take a large share of the blame, just like he’ll take the acclaim when we keep clean sheets, and rightly so.

If people are going to point to the league table to justify their argument that we’ve improved our goalkeeping position, then of course it’s fair of me to point to our defensive record. I wouldn’t go as far to say that I agree with Grobelaar that we could win the league despite Mignolet, but I do think bar the penalty save he’s relatively low on my list of contributors.

Perhaps I’d have been better highlighting the stats in the thread that provoked my response, then it would have been clearer that I was using them to support a larger argument, rather than as an actual barometer of Mig’s ability. I didn’t want to do that though as I didn’t wanted to avoid another tit for tat Mig/Pepe argument, but this isn’t much better.

I can see where you're coming from in that context. All the same, I don't think one misuse of stats warrants another - they are both wrong!

I agree with the some of what Grob said - Mignolet is a quality shot stopper but lacking in other areas - but I certainly wouldn't go as far as him. As you say, the idea we'd be winning the league in spite of him is very harsh.

Mignolet vs Pepe is always going to be the debate when that's the comparison made. I think the only way of avoiding it is to appraise Mignolet against either his current peers in the league, or against a particular other keeper if people are making a case for them to be signed.

Overall, I'm down with Foggy's approach on this. Getting a new keeper in now would be ruthless and I could only see it happening with someone exceptional being available to us. Naturally, I wouldn't complain in that case! Failing that, I'm happy to wait and see how he progresses next season.

[RichC]

Interesting stats on keepers. It's filtered by clean sheets however if you look at the keepers in teams that around us i.e. the top 6 he's faced more shots than all of them which probably shows we give up more chances due to the style of football we play

[~LFCHistory~]

Very good shot stopper, improving on his distribution but his achilles' heel is quite clearly crosses which is a problem that is certainly possible to remedy with time and coaching which Mig will deservedly get.

He'll only get better with time and an improved, stable back 4 in front of him next season.

[el matador]

Excellent shot stopper but everything else needs a lot of work for me. Reina was the opposite excellent at most things but shot stopping was his weakness at the end.

[Rich]

I think we can justifiably be looking at replacements, Simon's flaws are there for all to see - he might improve his under pressure distribution but its his decision making which is also questionable and that cannot really be taught.

The first Norwich goal was eerily similar to one David James conceded when we played United donkey's years ago.

[Kenneth]

Looking for a first choice keeper would be a pointless waste of time and money. The chances of bringing someone in who didn't concede a goal or two from misjudgements at crosses would be small at best. All keepers do it, literally all of them.

[PTP]

i'm still of the same opinion i've had all season.

postives - superb shot stopper, won us many points this year. He's young, will only get better

negatives - can't command his 6 yard box, nevermind the penalty box. Can't kick the ball


i do think his negatives can be improved and worked on. And i have eveyr confidence in him


the issue we have at the moment is - for me he seems to be the one most effected/feeling the pressure. the flap against norwich, that struck me off a keeper who knows he should be coming to claim things....but doesn't have the confidence to do so. And due to the pressure he's not making the right judgements


unless you are 100% certain, you should come for a ball like that - it was similar to the goal we conceded against villa.....it's like he's had a rush of blood and thought i need to contribute.....and he's come for it, but not convinced himself he will get it, and he's ****ed it up and it's cost us.


What he should have done is just stayed on his line - skrtel would have challenged and it would have been a hell of a header to get up above skrtel and beat mignolet. If he does score then you just hold your hands up and say fair play.

personally i also believe his indecision plays a part in why our centre backs drop back so deep....i think they feel they need to so that they can deal with any crosses cause they are unsure if mignolet can come and claim....and this then has a negative on mignolet as he doesn't have the space to come and claim confidently.

it's just a bit of a cluster **** at the moment -


however i will add that i am confident, if we can get through this season...win the league then the pressure will be relieved, the confidence will grow, the nerves will be stronger and both mignolet and the centre backs will be 10x better for it next season

i just hope we can keep scoring at the other end and score enough to win the remaining games

[Kenneth]

unless you are 100% certain, you shouldn't come for a ball like that

But if he doesn't come and the cb doesn't win it then he's not commanding his box. If the cb does win it then nobody complains about the keeper. The two CBs and keeper all need to work in tandem and they aren't really at a the moment, but I don't think any of them lack the skills. It'll improve over time. If we bring someone else in then they're at square one again and there'll be yet more **** ups. De Gea was disastrous when he joined Utd.

[~LFCHistory~]

Any new keeper that comes here will find it difficult with our all out attacking style of football and unsettled back 4 that includes the like of Kolo, Skrtel and Johnson who are all error prone. It makes more sense to be patient with a talented young keeper like Mignolet than to chop and change keepers IMO.
We'll be better next season defensively.

[PTP]

But if he doesn't come and the cb doesn't win it then he's not commanding his box. If the cb does win it then nobody complains about the keeper. The two CBs and keeper all need to work in tandem and they aren't really at a the moment, but I don't think any of them lack the skills. It'll improve over time. If we bring someone else in then they're at square one again and there'll be yet more **** ups. De Gea was disastrous when he joined Utd.

yes i meant shouldn't

yeah it's all a bit of mess - defenders seem to be a bit unsure of the keeper who in term is being put under more pressure by defenders dropping to deep and almost smothering him.

i do feel it's just the pressure building on them - if they can keep their heads and see it through then next season they'll be a big weight of their shoulders and they'll all have the confidence to improve.