Liverpool vs Hull City post match thread

[DannyMan2006]

it's been painfully evident to just about anyone & makes it frustrating than Rodgers has persisted with Baloteli up top on his own. Hasn't helped us or the player himself IMO.

Basically Balo & Lambert up top is not dynamic enough to warrant playing the two together for a whole match - though may be more worthwhile when teams drop in the last 30min looking to settle for the point.

He's also tried Borini up top with Balo & it didn't work against West Ham.

My point is that people harp on about two up top based on the fact that we created more chances. Yes, we did. But it also makes you more light in midfield and against a 352 that's dangerous, until such a time when the opposition give up on the game and the home crowd get going.

I could go on about this forever, but bottom line is it's not formations, it's players that make the difference. Two world class strikers with a solid midfield and a 442 or diamond is fine. Creative and goal scoring midfielders with a top class striker & a 451/433 will work fine. We have at present only one top striker fit - Mario Balotelli. But he's not a lone striker because he never holds the line. He is best in a partnership. He will come deep and pick his moments to get in the box, he'll hold the ball up and has that individual brilliance to win a match. But he's not a focal point for a team.

He'll look great when Studge gets back. But if (when) Studge gets injured, he'll likely look poor again. My only hope is that by that point he'll have banged in a few & have the confidence to carry us for a short period.

[ChesterDave]

All that matters is winning. We should be processing sides like Hull.

Except it isn't all that matters is it. We lost the league last year conceding too many goals.

[danperkins]

Basically Balo & Lambert up top is not dynamic enough to warrant playing the two together for a whole match - though may be more worthwhile when teams drop in the last 30min looking to settle for the point.

He's also tried Borini up top with Balo & it didn't work against West Ham.

My point is that people harp on about two up top based on the fact that we created more chances. Yes, we did. But it also makes you more light in midfield and against a 352 that's dangerous, until such a time when the opposition give up on the game and the home crowd get going.

I could go on about this forever, but bottom line is it's not formations, it's players that make the difference. Two world class strikers with a solid midfield and a 442 or diamond is fine. Creative and goal scoring midfielders with a top class striker & a 451/433 will work fine. We have at present only one top striker fit - Mario Balotelli. But he's not a lone striker because he never holds the line. He is best in a partnership. He will come deep and pick his moments to get in the box, he'll hold the ball up and has that individual brilliance to win a match. But he's not a focal point for a team.

He'll look great when Studge gets back. But if (when) Studge gets injured, he'll likely look poor again. My only hope is that by that point he'll have banged in a few & have the confidence to carry us for a short period.

All fair points Danny but neither Lambert nor Balotelli can play up top on their own, they don't have the mobility or the stamina for it. I'm no fan of Borini but in Sturridge's absence, his workrate and mobility would have been decent foil for either Balotelli ot Lambert. One game to me isn't proof that won't work. We have what we have at the moment... so we have to play to our strengths. No problem with not playing two up top all the time but I would like to see it a bit more often.

Coutinho should have started IMO instead of Allen. Allen for me is never going to be anything more than a squaddie. He's handy to have in the squad alright but Coutinho deserved a start. He plays because it's more defensive support and legs for Stevie IMO. Against a team like Hull who sit deep & who are a nightmare to score against as set pieces in general (how many corners did we have), that guile Coutinho has was sorely missed. He made such a difference when he came on & i thought he was a shoe in to start after playing so well vs Madrid. Rodgers dropped Johnson thank god & Manquillo was very good, hopefully Coutinho gets his chance vs Swansea.

Vs Spurs we were excellent & we were decent vs Everton, apart from that we have been very poor all season. We look flat & one paced, no organisation at the back, no intensity & steel in the midfield & unbalanced up top.What happened to the pressing!? IMO against a team that has a workmanlike attitude, especially in the middle of the park.... we struggle.

Surely we will improve, especially when Sturridge gets back, but we have big issues elsewhere. I get the sentiment that a clean sheet was good and i understand that but really and truly we were fairly **** & most of us thought we would take all 3 points today.

[DannyMan2006]

All fair points Danny but neither Lambert nor Balotelli can play up top on their own, they don't have the mobility or the stamina for it. I'm no fan of Borini but in Sturridge's absence, his workrate and mobility would have been decent foil for either Balotelli ot Lambert. One game to me isn't proof that won't work. We have what we have at the moment... so we have to play to our strengths.

Coutinho should have started IMO instead of Allen. Allen for me is never going to be anything more than a squaddie. He's handy to have in the squad alright but Coutinho deserved a start. Against a team like Hull who sit deep & who are a nightmare to score against as set pieces in general (how many corners did we have), that guile Coutinho has was sorely missed. He made such a difference when he came on & i thought he was a shoe in to start after playing so well vs Madrid. Rodgers dropped Johnson thank god & Manquillo was very good, hopefully Coutinho gets his chance vs Swansea.

Vs Spurs we were excellent & we were decent vs Everton, apart from that we have been very poor all season. We look flat & one paced, no organisation at the back, no intensity & steel in the midfield & unbalanced up top.What happened to the pressing!? IMO against a team that has a workmanlike attitude, especially in the middle of the park.... we struggle.

Surely we will improve, especially when Sturridge gets back, but we have big issues elsewhere. I get the sentiment that a clean sheet was good and i understand that but really and truly we were fairly **** & most of us thought we would take all 3 points today.

We basically screwed up in the summer & we have no ideal way to play. Will obviously change when Dan gets back and also when Origi comes in next summer. So it's not a long term issue.

As for Allen, everyone was saying how much we missed him. IMO he's not fully match fit yet, nor is Can hence they're both in and out. On Couts, he was given chance after chance & didn't deliver. Now he's started to improve so I'm guessing Rodgers was right to take him out the firing line.

Today I think we were in desperate need of a clean sheet. I can see why we started with who we did.

On Mario - only top class striker we have. Can see why Rodgers sticks with him.

[mick the click]

To be honest, if the 45000 who paid were as quiet today as in previous games they can **** off. Where is the support we saw last season? This is when we need it most. Seems for a while now, the team needs to play in order to raise the fans. Thought it was a mutual thing?

Think we've been in agreement on this before.

People want to be entertained, that's what they pay for, it's not about support anymore.

Er... we were battered midweek by a team that played entertaining footy until they were out of sight. Is that satisfying? Having said that, you have a point. And that's why I've gone off footy to a great extent.

I was a regular at Anfield for (cough) almost 20 years, encompassing the 60s, 70s and early 80s, the glory years, if you like, as child, teenager and student blah blah blah

Long story short: people used to get to the ground early (if you turned up you could get in). If memory serves, up to two hours before, having shipped a cheeky bevvy or two if they were like my dad and his brothers when they took me.

There was some of the best music ever made in the 60's and the Kop (and the rest of the scousers present - usually most of the crowd) just sang with the PA. With gusto! Lyrics were *******ised to get a laugh but it was loud, brilliant and constant; it carried through the whole game, win lose or draw.

That's where the Kop legend was born. A long time ago I mentioned that I thought I still had an LP of (I think) the 66-67 season: one side es and the other side (I still have never played that side) the nevers.

Getting the loft converted and I've just found it. I'm going to have to get it mp3d and uploaded. I hope it's as good as I remember it.

Anyway, these days most of the players play for LFC for the money or the spotlight/stepping stone we offer, not for the badge. We're owned by Americans. Grounds are seated - not great for atmosphere. Many people can't afford to go to matches these days - if they can even get tickets.

Change is constant. Footy, on so many levels, hasn't imho changed for the better.

A very regrettable part of that change is that our lot only seem to sing when we're winning these days. Easy to say when I don't get to matches, but, as Rafa might have said, "'Tis True."

Going to lie down now. Past my bedtime.

[Saveloy]

Think we've been in agreement on this before.



Er... we were battered midweek by a team that played entertaining footy until they were out of sight. Is that satisfying? Having said that, you have a point. And that's why I've gone off footy to a great extent.

I was a regular at Anfield for (cough) almost 20 years, encompassing the 60s, 70s and early 80s, the glory years, if you like, as child, teenager and student blah blah blah

Long story short: people used to get to the ground early (if you turned up you could get in). If memory serves, up to two hours before, having shipped a cheeky bevvy or two if they were like my dad and his brothers when they took me.

There was some of the best music ever made in the 60's and the Kop (and the rest of the scousers present - usually most of the crowd) just sang with the PA. With gusto! Lyrics were *******ised to get a laugh but it was loud, brilliant and constant; it carried through the whole game, win lose or draw.

That's where the Kop legend was born. A long time ago I mentioned that I thought I still had an LP of (I think) the 66-67 season: one side es and the other side (I still have never played that side) the nevers.

Getting the loft converted and I've just found it. I'm going to have to get it mp3d and uploaded. I hope it's as good as I remember it.

Anyway, these days most of the players play for LFC for the money or the spotlight/stepping stone we offer, not for the badge. We're owned by Americans. Grounds are seated - not great for atmosphere. Many people can't afford to go to matches these days - if they can even get tickets.

Change is constant. Footy, on so many levels, hasn't imho changed for the better.

A very regrettable part of that change is that our lot only seem to sing when we're winning these days. Easy to say when I don't get to matches, but, as Rafa might have said, "'Tis True."

Going to lie down now. Past my bedtime.

I really enjoyed reading that. It's great to hear that sort of perspective.

Just make sure you have enough storage after the loft conversion.

[mick the click]

Just make sure you have enough storage after the loft conversion.

Ta!

Haven't/didn't. Nightmare.

[vlahka]

The pat that frustrated me the most was watching hull players triangle pass their way past our team all through the game. We used to do that. Now it rarely happens.

[Bender]

The pat that frustrated me the most was watching hull players triangle pass their way past our team all through the game. We used to do that. Now it rarely happens.

It seems without Suarez we are pretty useless,and he had nothing to do with out inept defence.But it seems we are for some reason incapable doing the simple things.

[danperkins]

We basically screwed up in the summer & we have no ideal way to play. Will obviously change when Dan gets back and also when Origi comes in next summer. So it's not a long term issue.

As for Allen, everyone was saying how much we missed him. IMO he's not fully match fit yet, nor is Can hence they're both in and out. On Couts, he was given chance after chance & didn't deliver. Now he's started to improve so I'm guessing Rodgers was right to take him out the firing line.

Today I think we were in desperate need of a clean sheet. I can see why we started with who we did.

On Mario - only top class striker we have. Can see why Rodgers sticks with him.

Coutinho's problem is that he is inconsistent, the talent is there but he doesn't always show it. I can see why he doesn't always start but i did think he would and should have started in this game. Trying to accommodate Stevie & Balotelli is messing with the balance of the side at the minute. When i say accommodate Gerrard, i mean having to play specific type of players around him to cover for him defensively. I love Stevie but the odd 60 yard cross field ball just doesn't cut it anymore. If we had and out and out DM, not only would sit be better for the defence.. it would mean we could be more flexible out the players ahead of him. At the moment there is zero intensity & our passing is horrible. There genuinely doesn't seem to be any real link play or balance between the midfield and front line... it's weird.

Be interesting to see how he lines up vs Swansea away..who are a good side. Personally the way we have played this season i think we we'll be hard pushed get a result against a hard working side like Swansea who have some quality too.

[Bender]

Coutinho's problem is that he is inconsistent, the talent is there but he doesn't always show it. I can see why he doesn't always start but i did think he would and should have started in this game. Trying to accommodate Stevie & Balotelli is messing with the balance of the side at the minute. When i say accommodate Gerrard, i mean having to play specific type of players around him to cover for him defensively. I love Stevie but the odd 60 yard cross field ball just doesn't cut it anymore. If we had and out and out DM, not only would sit be better for the defence.. it would mean we could be more flexible out the players ahead of him.

Be interesting to see how he lines up vs Swansea away..who are a good side. Personally the way we have played this season i think we we'll be hard pushed get a result against a hard working side like Swansea who have some quality too.

Coutinho's problem [inconsistent yes]is he seems for whatever reason needs a certain type of player/s/system to thrive in ......and same applies to Sterling needing quality players around him.

[danperkins]

Coutinho's problem [inconsistent yes]is he seems for whatever reason needs a certain type of player/s/system to thrive in ......and same applies to Sterling needing quality players around him.

yeah that's fair enough, i suppose better players bring the best out of them. Some players are like that others play better in a weaker side.

[frank the tank]

All fair points Danny but neither Lambert nor Balotelli can play up top on their own, they don't have the mobility or the stamina for it. I'm no fan of Borini but in Sturridge's absence, his workrate and mobility would have been decent foil for either Balotelli ot Lambert. One game to me isn't proof that won't work. We have what we have at the moment... so we have to play to our strengths. No problem with not playing two up top all the time but I would like to see it a bit more often.

Coutinho should have started IMO instead of Allen. Allen for me is never going to be anything more than a squaddie. He's handy to have in the squad alright but Coutinho deserved a start. He plays because it's more defensive support and legs for Stevie IMO. Against a team like Hull who sit deep & who are a nightmare to score against as set pieces in general (how many corners did we have), that guile Coutinho has was sorely missed. He made such a difference when he came on & i thought he was a shoe in to start after playing so well vs Madrid. Rodgers dropped Johnson thank god & Manquillo was very good, hopefully Coutinho gets his chance vs Swansea.

Vs Spurs we were excellent & we were decent vs Everton, apart from that we have been very poor all season. We look flat & one paced, no organisation at the back, no intensity & steel in the midfield & unbalanced up top.What happened to the pressing!? IMO against a team that has a workmanlike attitude, especially in the middle of the park.... we struggle.

Surely we will improve, especially when Sturridge gets back, but we have big issues elsewhere. I get the sentiment that a clean sheet was good and i understand that but really and truly we were fairly **** & most of us thought we would take all 3 points today.

great post..... I think when Sturridge gets back then things will improve big time....I just hope he can stay fit for the rest of the season then....

The bit about joe Allen is a good point.....deffo Coutinho should have played yesterday - although I think joe Allen could be more than a squadie to be honest. I think back to last November / December when Gerrard was injured. Joe Allen Lucas and Henderson were an amazing trio in the middle. I think the weight of having Gerrard on the pitch next to him is huge. It was for Lucas when he first came to lfc as well - he only started to show form when Gerrard was injured as well......i think it is a big problem......for Brendan to get the best out of players like joe Allen then he has to integrate Gerrard into the team in a way that gets the best out of the team...not gets the best out of Gerrard. Benitez had the same issue and managed this by first moving Gerrard to the right wing....and then to behind Torres. For me the answer would be to play the diamond formation with a specialist defensive midfielder, play Henderson whenever he is over 90% fit....and rotate Gerrard and Allen to play next to him......maybe that is the intention when Emre Can gets up to speed....

I think the best starting line up yesterday would have been the back 4 that we saw......the diamond formation with Coutinho behind sterling and Balotelli up top....and of the other 3 players, Henderson to be one of them....

[danperkins]

great post..... I think when Sturridge gets back then things will improve big time....I just hope he can stay fit for the rest of the season then....

The bit about joe Allen is a good point.....deffo Coutinho should have played yesterday - although I think joe Allen could be more than a squadie to be honest. I think back to last November / December when Gerrard was injured. Joe Allen Lucas and Henderson were an amazing trio in the middle. I think the weight of having Gerrard on the pitch next to him is huge. It was for Lucas when he first came to lfc as well - he only started to show form when Gerrard was injured as well......i think it is a big problem......for Brendan to get the best out of players like joe Allen then he has to integrate Gerrard into the team in a way that gets the best out of the team...not gets the best out of Gerrard. Benitez had the same issue and managed this by first moving Gerrard to the right wing....and then to behind Torres. For me the answer would be to play the diamond formation with a specialist defensive midfielder, play Henderson whenever he is over 90% fit....and rotate Gerrard and Allen to play next to him......maybe that is the intention when Emre Can gets up to speed....

I think the best starting line up yesterday would have been the back 4 that we saw......the diamond formation with Coutinho behind sterling and Balotelli up top....and of the other 3 players, Henderson to be one of them....

maybe i'm being a bit harsh on Allen as he isn't fully match fit, IMO i just really thought it was the perfect game for Coutinho was bit miffed when he didn't start & more so when i seen how effective he was when he came on.

The Gerrard situation is so tricky. Rodgers wants him deep to get the ball off the CB's and dictate possession up the field. Gerrard is a quality long range passer but his short passing IMO is just too slow... he was never the tika taka type of player. When Lucas was on form the other season or especially when we had Alonso... the passing was so sharp. For me we are so slow to release the ball that any team that presses high against us or works hard in midfield, dominate us.

IMO Gerrard's best attributes are his striking of a ball & his set pieces (Although his corners can be so frustrating). If we are going to play Stevie for me it makes sense to play him closer to goal to get the best of him, lessen his work load & play to his strengths. He has lost his pace & never had good defensive positional sense. Rodgers seems to have created this role for Stevie just to accommodate him. And IMO not only does it go against his natural game... at 34 he's having to work harder than he's ever had & in a position that he seems to struggle when we're on the back foot. We are having to choose certain players because of Gerrard's defensive frailties.

For me, the current Gerrard role only works if we have a team that can dominate possession and dictate games in the midfield.. and we don't. We look uncomfortable and clumsy in possession if there is any sort of sustained pressing from the opposition. More often than not we give it away and are straight on the defensive. A DM surely is a must?

I don't think we really know what way to play at the moment. It's most unbalanced i've seen a LFC in a long time.

[RedRum]

maybe i'm being a bit harsh on Allen as he isn't fully match fit, IMO i just really thought it was the perfect game for Coutinho was bit miffed when he didn't start & more so when i seen how effective he was when he came on.

The Gerrard situation is so tricky. Rodgers wants him deep to get the ball off the CB's and dictate possession up the field. Gerrard is a quality long range passer but his short passing IMO is just too slow... he was never the tika taka type of player. When Lucas was on form the other season or especially when we had Alonso... the passing was so sharp. For me we are so slow to release the ball that any team that presses high against us or works hard in midfield, dominate us.

IMO Gerrard's best attributes are his striking of a ball & his set pieces (Although his corners can be so frustrating). If we are going to play Stevie for me it makes sense to play him closer to goal to get the best of him, lessen his work load & play to his strengths. He has lost his pace & never had good defensive positional sense. Rodgers seems to have created this role for Stevie just to accommodate him. And IMO not only does it go against his natural game... at 34 he's having to work harder than he's ever had & in a position that he seems to struggle when we're on the back foot. We are having to choose certain players because of Gerrard's defensive frailties.

For me, the current Gerrard role only works if we have a team that can dominate possession and dictate games in the midfield.. and we don't. We look uncomfortable and clumsy in possession if there is any sort of sustained pressing from the opposition. More often than not we give it away and are straight on the defensive. A DM surely is a must?

I don't think we really know what way to play at the moment. It's most unbalanced i've seen a LFC in a long time.

Try Stevie G as a ball playing centre back how much worse than Skrtel or Lovren can he be(