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    #61
    Good article from Tomkins today about the realities facing LFC and also Arsenal and Spurs in trying to break into the top 3 and win a league but it's long as usual so I'll post this excerpt which is relevant to my views on our ability to compete across all fronts. CL football will hurt us too but it has the benefit of massive amounts of wedge thrown your way to take the edge off.

    Cups with a limited squad

    In Rafa Benítez’s case I believe he takes his teams on so many extended cup runs it makes the league form harder to keep constant – because he always ends up with rescheduled fixtures and games crammed in towards the end of the season; and even the biggest squads can struggle there (and only at Chelsea has he had a big squad). This leads us into another area, in that silverware is important – but the cups (and particularly the Europa League) damage league form.

    If playing games every three or four days increases the likelihood of injuries (and the famed AC Milan lab said it did), then to play 60-65 games a season means more injuries, which means you need a bigger squad to cope. But if you have a limited budget, you almost certainly cannot add both quantity and quality. You add quantity, and it’s spread too thin; you add quality and you don’t have enough fit and able bodies and risk losing all of your investment in one or two bad injuries. (Youth graduates are one answer, but they are often inconsistent, and that inconsistency then becomes the gaping hole in the squad.)

    My sense is that even for an outside chance to win the title, Liverpool have to focus solely on the league, and use all of the cups for squad players and youth graduates, with Rodgers (or Klopp, Benítez or whoever) not even travelling with the team to cup games, but staying at Melwood to drill the senior side for the league fixture. But I don’t think any managers are ever keen on that, because they need trophies for their CVs – and some fans will want silverware and league success, because they think it’s 1986. And no one who pays to travel to watch games wants to see a shadow squad put out. It’s just that it might be for the greater good.

    Managers want to win trophies, to instil a winning mentality. And the ‘problem’ is, when you finally get into the Champions League you naturally have to take it seriously – and then, of course, your league form can suffer, and you fall down the league table, perhaps out of the top four. The answer? Bigger, more expensive squads. Something which FSG can’t afford, and in Liverpool’s case, FFP won’t allow. The owners had a brief go, as could be seen in the spending of 2011 (Liverpool almost went into the Title Zone), but that was their first year in charge, and the only year when they could spend big and not fall foul of FFP. Since then it’s been far more complicated, with some expensive duds, some supposed duds who came good, and Luis Suarez, who came and then went.

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      #62
      It's simple really, play your strongest teams in earlier games to get the maximum points to qualify for the next rounds then play the youngsters in the remaining games...
      Nope, don't need anger management, you just need to stop pissing me off!

      Comment


        #63
        [ame]https://twitter.com/SkySportsNewsHQ/status/596620339582472192[/ame]

        Comment


          #64
          Originally posted by Muddled View Post
          What's the 10 year stats for all the other leagues?
          If it's similar then fair enough, my bet though is that other countries that participate in the EL don't have any issues with it.

          Over here it's a stigma issue because everyone is snobbish - it the CL or nowhere.
          It's purely and simply a mind-set issue with English clubs, as the article above proved with games, travelling, recovery etc.... there is no logical reason for the clubs to perform as they do.

          Therefore it's the negative mind-set because that's the narrative everyone is fed.

          Exactly the same as the country voting back in the Tories, the sheep were fed the narrative, they voted accordingly.
          The King was back for a short while. Long live The King.

          Comment


            #65
            Originally posted by The Birdman View Post
            What's the 10 year stats for all the other leagues?
            If it's similar then fair enough, my bet though is that other countries that participate in the EL don't have any issues with it.

            Over here it's a stigma issue because everyone is snobbish - it the CL or nowhere.
            It's purely and simply a mind-set issue with English clubs, as the article above proved with games, travelling, recovery etc.... there is no logical reason for the clubs to perform as they do.

            Therefore it's the negative mind-set because that's the narrative everyone is fed.

            Exactly the same as the country voting back in the Tories, the sheep were fed the narrative, they voted accordingly.
            Unfortunately, my Googling skills have been found wanting. I've no idea of the impact to European teams, but I'd agree it is held in higher regard on the continent.

            Maybe the winter break helps (it may hinder, I'm just wildly speculating) and their more central geographical location may assist in travelling times, recovery, etc. Late evening kick off's throughout Europe are common place (late Sunday for example) which eases the burden of Thursday evening games.

            What we definitely know is that Sevilla love a good Europa League run.

            Comment


              #66
              I agree completely with Tomkins point. Think back to last season - we were out of both cups early and essentially we went for the league and nothing else. We didn't have a big squad and we didnt need one - we had one game a week where we went hell for leather.....and it was great...

              I hope to fock that is how we treat the europa games and the capital-One cup games next year. Give the young players plenty of opportunities and lets see if they can do anything..... any senior players in the team should be just there because they are not part of the managers plans, need match fitness coming back from injury or whatever. So someone like Jose Enrique and Lambert from this season. It would also be useful to try out players in different positions - so Emre Can as the sitting midfielder in a diamond formation.....

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by frank the tank View Post
                I agree completely with Tomkins point. Think back to last season - we were out of both cups early and essentially we went for the league and nothing else. We didn't have a big squad and we didnt need one - we had one game a week where we went hell for leather.....and it was great...

                I hope to fock that is how we treat the europa games and the capital-One cup games next year. Give the young players plenty of opportunities and lets see if they can do anything..... any senior players in the team should be just there because they are not part of the managers plans, need match fitness coming back from injury or whatever. So someone like Jose Enrique and Lambert from this season. It would also be useful to try out players in different positions - so Emre Can as the sitting midfielder in a diamond formation.....

                That's all well and good until we get knocked out in the 1st round because we've played a load of kids and everyone steams in with -
                Liverpool FC exists to win trophies etc...etc...

                Then the press steam in with knocked out early, panic, pressure Rodgers' job under threat etc....
                You won't escape it, isn't possible to not take it seriously these days if you're a high profile football club.
                The King was back for a short while. Long live The King.

                Comment


                  #68
                  Originally posted by The Birdman View Post
                  That's all well and good until we get knocked out in the 1st round because we've played a load of kids and everyone steams in with -
                  Liverpool FC exists to win trophies etc...etc...

                  Then the press steam in with knocked out early, panic, pressure Rodgers' job under threat etc....
                  You won't escape it, isn't possible to not take it seriously these days if you're a high profile football club.
                  If we were doing well in the league and were open about our intentions in the Europa Cup (which we would be as our team selections would say it all) then I don't think it would be a problem.

                  If we have the same league form as this season, then that is where Rodgers will find he has problems - but that is the case regardless of what other competitions we are in.

                  Also, you know what - i think we would probably do okay. Even if we played a stronger team in the 2 easiest home teams and collected 6 points, we would then be halfway to getting out of the group anyway. Happy days.

                  If it was this approach this season, then I'd expect to see something like:

                  -----------------------------BRAD JONES-----------------------------

                  MANQUILLO------KOLO TOURE---------LOVREN------------ENRIQUE


                  ----------------ROSSITER------LUCAS-------LALLANA----------------

                  MARKOVIC-------------------LAMBERT---------------------------OJO

                  With the likes of Wilson, Sinclair etc on the bench. Lucas, Lallana and Markovic because they won't be involved the following Sunday.

                  That team would hold their own against the likes of Sampdoria. And if they don't, then fock it at least we know that certain players arent going to make it.

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Yeah somebody at the club needs to openly say it, get the fans onboard. We want the league, we are devoting the first team squad to the league and that only, the cups will be used to blood young players and senior lads returning from injury or not getting game time.

                    I'd get on board with that no doubt. Plenty would still moan about it though and the media would have their say too. Brendan does need a trophy though so it won't happen.

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by Muddled View Post
                      So we ignore the opinions of the people that experience playing in the Europa League and the statistics showing a drop in league form (via the BBC) and dismiss it as the media narrative. And boy, does he like the word narrative.
                      He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts - for support rather than illumination
                      Anybody who criticizes Klopp ever is a James Blunt. Nov 2015
                      #****CITY

                      Comment


                        #71


                        Thankfully both soton and spurs have tough games next weekend and villa are rubbish.
                        Jürgen Klopp

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                          #72
                          link
                          Finishing fifth in the Premier League would have meant an automatic spot in Europe’s second-tier competition and a first Europa League game in mid-September. Liverpool’s defeat at Stoke means that place goes to Tottenham.

                          Instead, Brendan Rodgers’ side now enter in the third qualifying round, with the first leg on July 30th – just six days after playing a friendly in Malaysia. The second leg is a week later on August 6th – two days before the Premier League season starts on the 8th.

                          Liverpool’s first Premier League game of the new season will therefore be on Sunday 9th August.

                          Win the Europa qualifier and they’ll then be in the final play-off round, which takes place on August 20th and 27th.

                          All this means Liverpool will be unable to schedule as many pre-season friendlies as they would have typically and it’s also a setback for the club’s Main Stand expansion schedule as the Europa qualifier means less time for work over the summer.

                          The Reds requested to end this season away from Anfield and start next season away again in order to allow for more time over the summer to work on the stadium.

                          Without the Europa commitments, LFC’s first game back at Anfield would have been the second Premier League game of the season, instead it will be a fortnight earlier.

                          DATES

                          July 17 – Friendly vs Brisbane Roar
                          July 20 – Friendly vs Adelaide United
                          July 24 – Friendly vs Malaysia XI (in Kuala Lumpur)
                          July 30 – Europa League 3rd qualifying round, first leg
                          August 6 – Europa League 3rd qualifying round, second leg
                          August 8 – New Premier League season begins
                          August 9 – Liverpool first game of PL season on Sunday, due to EL qualifier
                          August 20 – Europa League play-off, first leg
                          August 27 – Europa League play-off, first leg

                          Comment


                            #73
                            I read yesterday that if Arsenal win the cup we go straight into the group stages so come on the gooners.

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Originally posted by G View Post
                              I read yesterday that if Arsenal win the cup we go straight into the group stages so come on the gooners.
                              That's right
                              Jürgen Klopp

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Cheering on Arsenal then. Sad times.
                                Forwards.......

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