Norwich (H) post match

[danperkins]

Apart from Suarez season though he hasn't really played attacking football. I think it's quite obvious now that Suarez made that side function. Don't really think he played attacking football at Swansea or Reading... more possession based football. In 13-14 he had the SAS, they automatically forced attacking football on the team.

[Roboklopp]

Well to me a charlatan is a con artist, which is very different from a false sense of your own ability.

Obviously he know's he's struggling but I don't doubt that he isn't still hopeful of turning things around.

But if anyone wants to say he's deluded then I won't disagree

Yeah ok. Hopeful maybe, but I don't think he's convinced himself.

[Roboklopp]

Apart from Suarez season though he hasn't really played attacking football. I think it's quite obvious now that Suarez made that side function. Don't really think he played attacking football at Swansea or Reading... more possession based football. In 13-14 he had the SAS, they automatically forced attacking football on the team.

See, we agree again.

[Buzzo]

Does self-belief really mean he isn't a charlatan, I'm not 100% sure of the strict semantics of all the criteria that qualities it in its original sense tbh.

Even so, I'm no longer convinced he's convinced by his own bull****.

Joking aside, I actually think this is part of the problem.

One of Brendans big problems as he has sold himself to us and the media as one of the games great thinkers - an arch tactician, with an unbeatable footballing philosophy. He communicated confidently to us all that he has an understanding of the game that his players need to buy into to achieve success. And this approach would undoubtedly work if you achieve success, but is fundamentally flawed if a) you don't, and b)you never have. If this happens your philosophy is actually just a theory. A failed theory. And then its a slightly changed theory. And then its an adaptation on the original theory. And then finally it is just bull****.

I suspect Brendan repackaged himself to FSG in the summer by pointing out that he was the same man who nearly won us the league just over a year ago, and then threw the kitchen sink at it in terms of mitigating reasons for the season just gone. He even offered up a few sacrificial lambs along the way (coaching staff) he had Mario, losing Suarez, Sturridge injury etc. etc. The problem is, though we did play some amazing football with Suarez that year the lack of performance he was getting from the team last season suggested the problems went much deeper. Take the Madrid debacle - it just should never be the Liverpool way to admit defeat before we set foot on the pitch. Take not being able to get a performance or a result against Villa in the semi (Villa!!!), and then take the utter, abject, embarassing capitulation against Stoke City.

And now this season, after an indifferent start and an easy opening couple of fixtures followed up by a promising performance at Arsenal... What happened, we got cocky, and we lost to West Ham, not by a fluke, we lost badly. Then a turgid safety first defeat at old trafford, where the philosophy is scrapped yet again.

Brendan seems to have completely run out of ideas, to change the formation to 3 ****ing 5 - 2, again, having used it as a career saving move last November looks ridiculous having just spent £80 odd million on players to fit 4-3-3. How does he justify this move now? What does he say to FSG now? Any reason he gives to the board will surely be the exact opposite of the vision he has just laid out to them and the squad in the summer. He then has to sell a playing style and a vision to the squad - to have already binned it after a handful of games must leave the squad doubting his ability, the vision. We are back to playing Emre Can in a back three - decent teams are going to have him on toast again, same as when we were worked out last season.

And then his perseverance with Lovren. madness. Everyone can see he is a problem - he was a mistake waiting to happen last season and a catastrophe this. So the squad looks massively unbalanced due to our inability to strengthen in key defensive areas in midfield and defence Again. We seem to always look 3 or 4 quality players short, no matter how many we buy, mainly because we never buy a defensive player - a Schneiderlin, a Wanyama (or even someone from a team other than Southampton!).

It will probably be the best thing for him to get a fresh start somewhere now too. He has some potential as a coach, but he needs to take his philosophy elsewhere. And not with us.

[Corndog]

From what I saw, there were huge gaps in the middle of the field in the first half, Norwich had 5 midfielders to liverpools 3.

Thought firmino was decent when he came on. Side looked like it attacked better when the formation was changed.

[Mark79]

Yeah ok. Hopeful maybe, but I don't think he's convinced himself.

Maybe he's not completely convinced at this point, but he's still entitled to take every minute that the owners afford him to make it work.

[Roboklopp]

Joking aside, I actually think this is part of the problem.

One of Brendans big problems as he has sold himself to us and the media as one of the games great thinkers - an arch tactician, with an unbeatable footballing philosophy. He communicated confidently to us all that he has an understanding of the game that his players need to buy into to achieve success. And this approach would undoubtedly work if you achieve success, but is fundamentally flawed if a) you don't, and b)you never have. If this happens your philosophy is actually just a theory. A failed theory. And then its a slightly changed theory. And then its an adaptation on the original theory. And then finally it is just bull****.

I suspect Brendan repackaged himself to FSG in the summer by pointing out that he was the same man who nearly won us the league just over a year ago, and then threw the kitchen sink at it in terms of mitigating reasons for the season just gone. He even offered up a few sacrificial lambs along the way (coaching staff) he had Mario, losing Suarez, Sturridge injury etc. etc. The problem is, though we did play some amazing football with Suarez that year the lack of performance he was getting from the team last season suggested the problems went much deeper. Take the Madrid debacle - it just should never be the Liverpool way to admit defeat before we set foot on the pitch. Take not being able to get a performance or a result against Villa in the semi (Villa!!!), and then take the utter, abject, embarassing capitulation against Stoke City.

And now this season, after an indifferent start and an easy opening couple of fixtures followed up by a promising performance at Arsenal... What happened, we got cocky, and we lost to West Ham, not by a fluke, we lost badly. Then a turgid safety first defeat at old trafford, where the philosophy is scrapped yet again.

Brendan seems to have completely run out of ideas, to change the formation to 3 ****ing 5 - 2, again, having used it as a career saving move last November looks ridiculous having just spent £80 odd million on players to fit 4-3-3. How does he justify this move now? What does he say to FSG now? Any reason he gives to the board will surely be the exact opposite of the vision he has just laid out to them and the squad in the summer. He then has to sell a playing style and a vision to the squad - to have already binned it after a handful of games must leave the squad doubting his ability, the vision. We are back to playing Emre Can in a back three - decent teams are going to have him on toast again, same as when we were worked out last season.

And then his perseverance with Lovren. madness. Everyone can see he is a problem - he was a mistake waiting to happen last season and a catastrophe this. So the squad looks massively unbalanced due to our inability to strengthen in key defensive areas in midfield and defence Again. We seem to always look 3 or 4 quality players short, no matter how many we buy, mainly because we never buy a defensive player - a Schneiderlin, a Wanyama (or even someone from a team other than Southampton!).

It will probably be the best thing for him to get a fresh start somewhere now too. He has some potential as a coach, but he needs to take his philosophy elsewhere. And not with us.

I wasn't joking, & that is an excellent post.

[Roboklopp]

Maybe he's not completely convinced at this point, but he's still entitled to take every minute that the owners afford him to make it work.

He is aye, but then the owners are not hugely well versed in the threshold here.

[Gibbo]

I won't quote your post again Buzzo 'cos it's lengthy but;

[DannyMan2006]

Tbh he should've been sacked just as soon as he admitted his own failings. By that I mean when he ditched his 433 which he'd been working on all summer and had specifically signed players for.

Last season it was all that waste on the Southampton lot. I like Lallana but he's never knew what to do with him. This year it's gonna be Benteke & Firmino. We look better without both in Rodgers 3412 side.

Couts in behind two pacey forwards in Ings & Studge looks better than trying to fit in a target man who Brendan still hasn't shown he knows how to fit in. As soon as he moves away from his idea of having loads of players buzzing around Benteke he's shot himself in the foot.

Rodgers should've stuck with his solid gold idea of having pacey players with movement up top, and industry & energy in midfield alongside a creative spark.

[Exiled_red]

I mean he's obviously not a complete and utter fraud - not like one of us getting the job. But he has a hubris about him, and talks in these ludicrous riddles, that is starting to give me the impression of delusions of grandeur. All these too-clever-by-half formation changes. He thinks he's reinventing the wheel, when in fact he's all over the place. That relentless possession thing he was known for at Swansea...we did that for a while but it was passive and ****, then Suarez/Sturridge/Sterling demanded that we play a different game, that got broken up and what have we been since? We're not that possession machine any more, we're not that lightning quick maverick pressing machine, we're not anything. We're beige at best. His thinking seems so muddled. I'm going off track here - he's not a complete fraud but the longer this goes on, and the more bollocks he talks about it, the bigger fool he's starting to look.

[Tribute]

From Radio City news this morning:
SPORT: Brendan Rodgers says Liverpool's draw with Norwich yesterday was a step in the right direction.

Jesus wept.

[Fredo]

From Radio City news this morning:
SPORT: Brendan Rodgers says Liverpool's draw with Norwich yesterday was a step in the right direction.

Jesus wept.

Small mercies etc... To be fair, we've done better than the first 4 games with that change of formation as we looked less disjointed. Coutinho has been getting into very good positions, as well as Milner from midfield, so it looks like he's got the base of something workable. Let's see how it pans out, as he's not going to get sacked anytime soon.

[Fierce]

From Radio City news this morning:
SPORT: Brendan Rodgers says Liverpool's draw with Norwich yesterday was a step in the right direction.

Jesus wept.

Well, it was

A shuffle might be more accurate than a step, but still. For about 35 minutes we looked good

[Exiled_red]

From Radio City news this morning:
SPORT: Brendan Rodgers says Liverpool's draw with Norwich yesterday was a step in the right direction.

Jesus wept.

In fairness it was, we moved from dire to poor. We did at least create chances and I think if we could finish or on another day we could have won that game fairly comfortably. There are still alot of problems and there is a long way to go but I think a step in the right directionn is a fair comment.