Swansea (A) - Post Match

[Fredo]

Under Rafa we could easily cope with long balls and 2nd balls. Carra & Hyypia at the back and dealing with long balls with Hamann, Alonso, Sissons, Mascherano picking up 2nd balls

If this side had a Mascherano or a Hamann we would be much more solid

Klopp touched on that in his pc. Problem was that we tried too hard to score the third goal (with 20 mins or so remaining) and committed too many players forward. We lost the ball and had 3 v 3 with Swansea counter attacking and we just couldn't win the ball back and got a hit unlucky with the deflection.

If we'd slow it down and kept the ball we'd have worn Swansea out eventually. In the end we ended up trying to get forward desperately Man Utd style with Matip playing as an auxiliary centre forward.

With patience and composure we'd have won this game even not at our best and Swansea parking in the bus.

It's not easy in English football and I think Klopp is still trying to adjust.

[Lecter]

Klopp touched on that in his pc. Problem was that we tried too hard to score the third goal (with 20 mins or so remaining) and committed too many players forward. We lost the ball and had 3 v 3 with Swansea counter attacking and we just couldn't win the ball back and got a hit unlucky with the deflection.

If we'd slow it down and kept the ball we'd have worn Swansea out eventually. In the end we ended up trying to get forward desperately Man Utd style with Matip playing as an auxiliary centre forward.

With patience and composure we'd have won this game even not at our best and Swansea parking in the bus.

It's not easy in English football and I think Klopp is still trying to adjust.

They broke on us a number of times Fer ran 40 yards without anyone putting a tackle in on him at one point and that one wasn't down to too many player too far forward it was nobody putting a ****ing challenge in

We don't need to slow things down further the first half showed you what happens when we play slow. Also we've been slow the last half dozen games and there's been a notable drop off in our goals scored and games won

Last 18 months of Brendan I was hugely critical of our lack of pressing and plodding possession game

Klopp has changed us and brought a more consistent press and a quicker tempo BUT we have pressed far less and played at a much lower tempo recently and have reverted to the Brendan Formula which imo is why results have dropped off a cliff

[Fredo]

They broke on us a number of times Fer ran 40 yards without anyone putting a tackle in on him at one point and that one wasn't down to too many player too far forward it was nobody putting a ****ing challenge in

We don't need to slow things down further the first half showed you what happens when we play slow. Also we've been slow the last half dozen games and there's been a notable drop off in our goals scored and games won

Last 18 months of Brendan I was hugely critical of our lack of pressing and plodding possession game

Klopp has changed us and brought a more consistent press and a quicker tempo BUT we have pressed far less and played at a much lower tempo recently and have reverted to the Brendan Formula which imo is why results have dropped off a cliff

Well it's hard to keep up a tempo and the pressing all game long so it's a prerequisite that we still keep the ball even if it involves slowing it down, IMO. IIRC that's what the old Liverpool teams used to do. At the time the competition wasn't even near as good as what we have at the moment.

We're getting there and I still wouldn't be surprised if we kick on at some stage and still challenge before the end of the season.

[Fredo]

I think we were also caught off guard at Swansea's quick start to the second half. It's all about mentality and awareness our failings at the moment.

[BigChief]

Can can't even play it sideways.

There's nothing wrong with being conservative in possession as long as you keep the ball and keep the tempo of our play. Wijnaldum does it well.

After many years Can is the first player to start scaring the sh*t out of me every time he gets the ball. You just pray he plays it simple before the world ends. Opposition teams have so worked him out its not even funny any more. So easy to dispossess and misplace his passes.

Saying that I fully expect him to start against Chelsea.

[Fredo]

After many years Can is the first player to start scaring the sh*t out of me every time he gets the ball. You just pray he plays it simple before the world ends. Opposition teams have so worked him out its not even funny any more. So easy to dispossess and misplace his passes.

Saying that I fully expect him to start against Chelsea.

Yep.

I hate criticising one of our own but Can is close to being a liability at the moment and has been for some time.

:-(

[Lecter]

Well it's hard to keep up a tempo and the pressing all game long so it's a prerequisite that we still keep the ball even if it involves slowing it down, IMO. IIRC that's what the old Liverpool teams used to do. At the time the competition wasn't even near as good as what we have at the moment.

We're getting there and I still wouldn't be surprised if we kick on at some stage and still challenge before the end of the season.

You've got to press at sometimes in the match. You have to compete and we have not done that anywhere near enough recently if at all recently

It's ****e to suggest otherwise

As for those past sides I don't know how much of us you watched live but I would suggest we generally passed the ball around when the game was done (when we were winning) particularly in the league we wouldn't play sideways early on we would swarm over them pressing teams high and pushing teams back constantly probing. The notable exception was away games in Europe when we would play slow build up to quieten the crowd a more European style

I would also argue the competition was plenty good enough back then

[Lecter]

I think we were also caught off guard at Swansea's quick start to the second half. It's all about mentality and awareness our failings at the moment.

It's not all about those things it's way more complicated than that

[Fredo]

You've got to press at sometimes in the match. You have to compete and we have not done that anywhere near enough recently if at all recently

It's ****e to suggest otherwise

As for those past sides I don't know how much of us you watched live but I would suggest we generally passed the ball around when the game was done (when we were winning) particularly in the league we wouldn't play sideways early on we would swarm over them pressing teams high and pushing teams back constantly probing. The notable exception was away games in Europe when we would play slow build up to quieten the crowd a more European style

I would also argue the competition was plenty good enough back then

It's obvious that we compete. Come on. It's lack of concentration at times and timing. It has been our problem since under Rodgers which has been rectified on the main by Klopp.

Bar Chelsea, no other team has been running away with the league this year so it's all not all doom and gloom putting it into perspective.

[Lecter]

It's obvious that we compete. Come on. It's lack of concentration at times and timing. It has been our problem since under Rodgers which has been rectified on the main by Klopp.

Bar Chelsea, no other team has been running away with the league this year so it's all not all doom and gloom putting it into perspective.

We haven't pressed much the last few weeks

Notable drop off for me

When we start quick pressing high it sets a tempo and that is here even when we have long periods of possession. Our passing is sharper

Don't press high you we retreat into Brendan mode in our passing

The mentality problem as I see it is two fold

1) we sometimes go out thinking we dont have to turn up and we will win so we start the Brendan slow game

2) we don't have enough players who have the bottle of accepting responsibility and doing stuff hems elves. They will often pass the book (by passing sideways)

Our major failings recently have been lack of pressing when we should be and being found out tactically and failing to win 2nd balls

[Fredo]

We haven't pressed much the last few weeks

Notable drop off for me

When we start quick pressing high it sets a tempo and that is here even when we have long periods of possession. Our passing is sharper

Don't press high you we retreat into Brendan mode in our passing

The mentality problem as I see it is two fold

1) we sometimes go out thinking we dont have to turn up and we will win so we start the Brendan slow game

2) we don't have enough players who have the bottle of accepting responsibility and doing stuff hems elves. They will often pass the book (by passing sideways)

Our major failings recently have been lack of pressing when we should be and being found out tactically and failing to win 2nd balls

Lack of pressing hasn't been a problem too much at the moment IMO because we have dominated possession most games. It's when we don't have the ball and have been slow to react, whether by being out of position or having too many players forward.

We cannot keep up the same tempo all season all the time all game, especially when the period between games is so small all the moment.

[Fredo]

And pressing is only a problem when we don't have the ball. :-)

[Lecter]

Lack of pressing hasn't been a problem too much at the moment IMO because we have dominated possession most games. It's when we don't have the ball and have been slow to react, whether by being out of position or having too many players forward.

We cannot keep up the same tempo all season all the time all game, especially when the period between games is so small all the moment.

You sound like Brendan

Possession possession possession

Means **** all

It's not being out of position either

It's like last year I think you were telling us Benteke was much maligned and would do great when he went elsewhere

He's still **** and lazy and never in the box

[Lecter]

And pressing is only a problem when we don't have the ball. :-)

More Brendanisms

You will never have 100% possession so you will have to press at some point in a game

We've sat through the Brendan term we have seen how the slow possession game failed under Brendan so why would we try the same again now and expect it to work??

Brendans most successful period involved us pressing high with a quick tempo, turning possession quickly into counterattacks - this is probably counter-pressing (Gegenpressing) that Klopp has been preaching

The moment we stopped pressing and fell into the possession is king philosophy everything went to ****

Now when this season we have followed the quick tempo high press football we've been at our best but the Brendan possession game has crept back in

Yes I do appreciate you cant play full throttle all game but its harder to start slow and change pace than start quick and take your foot off the throttle

I am convinced the slow possession game suits the opposition, they can set themselves into position to shut off the space.

Letting us have the ball and play slow causes us problems and so does circumventing the press by playing long and making us compete for 2nd balls

Klopp is on the right lines imo but hes yet to address the slow possession tempo problem and the long ball / 2nd ball problem

We need players to rectify both these problems its why I want quicker players and players who win 2nd balls

Today has once again shown the squad is too thin as we become over reliant on players who are of a similar ilk. We dont have enough variety in our squad or in our play

[Fredo]

More Brendanisms

You will never have 100% possession so you will have to press at some point in a game

We've sat through the Brendan term we have seen how the slow possession game failed under Brendan so why would we try the same again now and expect it to work??

Brendans most successful period involved us pressing high with a quick tempo, turning possession quickly into counterattacks - this is probably counter-pressing (Gegenpressing) that Klopp has been preaching

The moment we stopped pressing and fell into the possession is king philosophy everything went to ****

Now when this season we have followed the quick tempo high press football we've been at our best but the Brendan possession game has crept back in

Yes I do appreciate you cant play full throttle all game but its harder to start slow and change pace than start quick and take your foot off the throttle

I am convinced the slow possession game suits the opposition, they can set themselves into position to shut off the space.

Letting us have the ball and play slow causes us problems and so does circumventing the press by playing long and making us compete for 2nd balls

Klopp is on the right lines imo but hes yet to address the slow possession tempo problem and the long ball / 2nd ball problem

We need players to rectify both these problems its why I want quicker players and players who win 2nd balls

Today has once again shown the squad is too thin as we become over reliant on players who are of a similar ilk. We dont have enough variety in our squad or in our play

Not having all of that.

Possession is important and has been a staple of all the great Liverpool teams of the past. 100% is not feasible not sure why you think it is what Rodgers preached. Fact is that more possession and the ability to control a game of football having the ball, wins you games more than not.

Pressing is important but the more you do it means you are under the influence of the other team. The quicker you regain possession (as in counter pressing under Klopp's terms) the better and we haven't been good at it lately.

I'm a bit drunk to be honest, so I'll call it quits.

We can resume this whenever you like though.