Virgil van Dijk

[The_weatherman]

We should have extended VVD and Trent sooner, and we should still be trying. Salah I can understand more, his wages are so high.

[Doc_Piptorious]

We should have extended VVD and Trent sooner, and we should still be trying. Salah I can understand more, his wages are so high.

What if TAA is looking for Salah level wages too? Does the same logic of it being too high still apply?

[Kenneth]

Player approaching his peak vs player passed it, I think it’s fair.

[The_weatherman]

What if TAA is looking for Salah level wages too? Does the same logic of it being too high still apply?

Tend to agree with Kenneth, but if his wage demands are stupid, I can understand the logic in letting the data make the decision, maybe the output doesn't quite justify 300 k a week.

He has considerable weaknesses as an orthodox right back, like aerial duels for one, so his output needs to be consistently world class to compensate and justify a world class wage.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Tend to agree with Kenneth, but if his wage demands are stupid, I can understand the logic in letting the data make the decision, maybe the output doesn't quite justify 300 k a week.

He has considerable weaknesses as an orthodox right back, like aerial duels for one, so his output needs to be consistently world class to compensate and justify a world class wage.

And has it been at that sort of level the past 12 months or so to warrant becoming our best paid player?


Think if we are going to pay him best at club level wages and also look at his output levels, as you suggested, as a way to measure that worth, then those levels need to be best in league/best in Europe for whatever position we see him as filling.


His output and return numbers were at that sport of level for me but for all of last season and about half the season before they took a nose dive by his standards and have not returned as of yet.


Salah, despite his age, still will offer amazing goal/assist numbers even when his output numbers elsewhere decline, TAA seems to have dropped off a bit across the board in terms of return the numbers that directly influence the points we get per game.


Of course the overall picture needs to be bigger than that, but if you are looking for best at club wages or close to them, then what you give back by way of either performances or key output numbers for your position needs to be elite over the course of a season and then again the next season etc.


Might TAA return to that sort of elite return? Of course he could as he is now in his prime agewise and at an age where elite players are churning out the numbers game in game out.

Unfortunately for him (and more so for the club) those elite numbers on a weekly basis have dried up to more resemble those of an "only" good player the past 12 to 16 months so whilst TAA and his reps will still push for the wages of an absolute elite player (and they are well entitled to do so) , the club will probably have to look at his numbers and say "well this guy was producing elite level numbers for four or so seasons in a row, but is currently on a 16 month run of not putting them up on a regular basis so is now his level or will he go back to what he was doing"


The old cliche of class being permanent and form being temporary could be trotted out, but when form lasts more than a season questions have to be asked on both sides of the wage demands imo.


Is the drop off down to the player, is it down to something at the club or both?

The one thing I will not point at is Klopp leaving as the drop off in return began during the season before Klopp announced he was leaving.


Dream scenario would be TAA hitting a rich vein of returns that earns him a massive contract offer from us and then after he signs his levels stay at the high level.

But the one thing I come back to on that, and I mentioned it yesterday I think and again a couple times over the past few seasons, is the question if he is one of those players that peaks very early in his career and that spends their late 20s trying to recapture the form of their late teens and early 20s. His agility levels on the half turn for a guy that is only about 5'9 (give or take and inch) tend to be eye catching and more so if you watch footage of games between 2018 and 2022 and then watch him do the same thing now. Go back three, four, five seasons and he moved on the half turn similar to what say Elliot does now or similar to how someone like Bernado silva does now, but watch TAA do it now and there is a distinct lack of fluidty there, like what one might expect in a once agile player who is not getting into their early 30s.


Is just a theory of course, but you see it in all sports when a player moves past their peak and does not matter whether we are talking footy, boxing or hurling, the change in agility in an athlete with a low centre of gravity looks the same.

[baitman]

I'm not sure trent would be signing even if we were to offer him some bigger cash.
He fancies being in the sun, being a serial trophy winner and chilling with his bro.
Hasta luego!

[Doc_Piptorious]

I'm not sure trent would be signing even if we were to offer him some bigger cash.
He fancies being in the sun, being a serial trophy winner and chilling with his bro.
Hasta luego!

Well if that were the case and the reasons why he decided to move, then not going to knock him for it.

Prefer him to recapture his best form and be a Liverpool player the rest of his career, but at the end of the day if he as a person has a chance to follow what is his dream path as a person, well that's not something everyone gets to do in their life so would have a level of respect for him on a personal level for chasing that dream.


Footy stuff is fair game for criticism, praise, debate and all that good stuff, but doing what you think is best for you and your family (as long as it is not hurting other folk etc ) is to be applauded when someone goes for it.

[Charly]

300k for 20+ assists a year is a good deal. But is he still capable of that?

[Doc_Piptorious]

300k for 20+ assists a year is a good deal. But is he still capable of that?

He got 18 in all comps in a season once in his career and 15 in all comps twice so 20+ a season is unrealistic imo.


For me, and looking at his talent, if he could give maybe 8 to 10 assists a season in the league along with 2 to 4 goals that would be an amazing return. Basically a G+A return of about 10 to 14 in the league. If that jumped to 13 to 15 assists in all comps, if we went deep in a few of them, then all the better.



Do think that given the attackers we have in the team that a target of 8 to 10 assists is an achievable one for him.


And I think targets like that should be what we should be setting/hoping for from him given the level of talent he has compared to a lot of other full backs.


Am also basing his g+A on what guys like Frimpong, Hakimi, Grimaldo etc can rack up in a league season and in an all comps season.

[Norbs]

Player approaching his peak vs player passed it, I think it’s fair.

Just to clarify, which player is which?

[BigChief]

Just to clarify, which player is which?

[SB]

Just to clarify, which player is which?

Genuine LOL moment

[Charly]

Is Virgil past his peak?

He may have lost a yard of pace (its hard to tell). But I think he is still top of the PL charts in a lot of metrics.

Its mot like Salah where you can see he has lost the ability to beat a man, and will flatline in february

[Doc_Piptorious]

Is Virgil past his peak?

He may have lost a yard of pace (its hard to tell). But I think he is still top of the PL charts in a lot of metrics.

Its mot like Salah where you can see he has lost the ability to beat a man, and will flatline in february

VVD is most likely a bit past his peak, but still at a level where he is consistently one of the best CBs in the league rather than being the clear cut best.

8 out of 10 games you probably get a top tier CB performance out of him.

[The_weatherman]

And has it been at that sort of level the past 12 months or so to warrant becoming our best paid player?


Think if we are going to pay him best at club level wages and also look at his output levels, as you suggested, as a way to measure that worth, then those levels need to be best in league/best in Europe for whatever position we see him as filling.


His output and return numbers were at that sport of level for me but for all of last season and about half the season before they took a nose dive by his standards and have not returned as of yet.


Salah, despite his age, still will offer amazing goal/assist numbers even when his output numbers elsewhere decline, TAA seems to have dropped off a bit across the board in terms of return the numbers that directly influence the points we get per game.


Of course the overall picture needs to be bigger than that, but if you are looking for best at club wages or close to them, then what you give back by way of either performances or key output numbers for your position needs to be elite over the course of a season and then again the next season etc.


Might TAA return to that sort of elite return? Of course he could as he is now in his prime agewise and at an age where elite players are churning out the numbers game in game out.

Unfortunately for him (and more so for the club) those elite numbers on a weekly basis have dried up to more resemble those of an "only" good player the past 12 to 16 months so whilst TAA and his reps will still push for the wages of an absolute elite player (and they are well entitled to do so) , the club will probably have to look at his numbers and say "well this guy was producing elite level numbers for four or so seasons in a row, but is currently on a 16 month run of not putting them up on a regular basis so is now his level or will he go back to what he was doing"


The old cliche of class being permanent and form being temporary could be trotted out, but when form lasts more than a season questions have to be asked on both sides of the wage demands imo.


Is the drop off down to the player, is it down to something at the club or both?

The one thing I will not point at is Klopp leaving as the drop off in return began during the season before Klopp announced he was leaving.


Dream scenario would be TAA hitting a rich vein of returns that earns him a massive contract offer from us and then after he signs his levels stay at the high level.

But the one thing I come back to on that, and I mentioned it yesterday I think and again a couple times over the past few seasons, is the question if he is one of those players that peaks very early in his career and that spends their late 20s trying to recapture the form of their late teens and early 20s. His agility levels on the half turn for a guy that is only about 5'9 (give or take and inch) tend to be eye catching and more so if you watch footage of games between 2018 and 2022 and then watch him do the same thing now. Go back three, four, five seasons and he moved on the half turn similar to what say Elliot does now or similar to how someone like Bernado silva does now, but watch TAA do it now and there is a distinct lack of fluidty there, like what one might expect in a once agile player who is not getting into their early 30s.


Is just a theory of course, but you see it in all sports when a player moves past their peak and does not matter whether we are talking footy, boxing or hurling, the change in agility in an athlete with a low centre of gravity looks the same.

I sort of agree, like I said I can see the logic in using data being the deciding factor here. We can't pay him 300 k a week realistically, but I do hope VVD gets an extension, he has lot's to offer still.