Spurs home build up (inc Spurs Utd)

[Kenneth]

So obsessed about the offside point he didn't even question the dive.

[PTP]

to add - apparently Sky have said at no point did Martin Atkinson (the 4th official) turn to check or ask to look at any monitor so therefore he had no input in the above conversation.

Basically the referee, gave the penalty - was unsure if the ball was played by Lovren, so therefore can only assume that Kane is offside? so gave the penalty anyway.

Also on another point - the offside rule is a mess....Kane is offside, however has Lovren attempts to play the ball and touches it on - he's now played Kane onside???

However, Lovren, doesn't know if Kane is offside or not so his instinct will always be to play the ball....he's hardly just going to leave it to run on when he see's Kane out the corner of his vision move towards the ball. Basically the ref is saying, had Lovren completely missed the ball then he wouldn't have given the pen?

But - lets give the ref some credit in that - he felt it was a pen in his initial instinct/reaction and he stuck to it, ignoring the linesman - rightly or wrongly at least he stuck to his decision......so why then, for the next one does he completely ignore his own instinct this time, and choose to go with the linesman?

it's a complete cluster ****


That said, id still feel the draw was the fair result and i'll take it and move on.

[Buzzo]

This proves that sometimes referees are just guessing...

Not ideal really.

[gratziani]

That fat **** was worried about getting back in his room for his after match cakes

This game was ****ing dreadful with his actions and yet nothing is said by pundits

[Lecter]

.


Get back to eating your crayons.....

Good to see this catching on

[labourRed]

to add - apparently Sky have said at no point did Martin Atkinson (the 4th official) turn to check or ask to look at any monitor so therefore he had no input in the above conversation.

Basically the referee, gave the penalty - was unsure if the ball was played by Lovren, so therefore can only assume that Kane is offside? so gave the penalty anyway.

Also on another point - the offside rule is a mess....Kane is offside, however has Lovren attempts to play the ball and touches it on - he's now played Kane onside???

However, Lovren, doesn't know if Kane is offside or not so his instinct will always be to play the ball....he's hardly just going to leave it to run on when he see's Kane out the corner of his vision move towards the ball. Basically the ref is saying, had Lovren completely missed the ball then he wouldn't have given the pen?

But - lets give the ref some credit in that - he felt it was a pen in his initial instinct/reaction and he stuck to it, ignoring the linesman - rightly or wrongly at least he stuck to his decision......so why then, for the next one does he completely ignore his own instinct this time, and choose to go with the linesman?

it's a complete cluster ****


That said, id still feel the draw was the fair result and i'll take it and move on.

As for Tottenham's second spot-kick, Erik Lamela 100% bought that penalty from Virgil van Dijk but it was still the correct decision.

Lamela is clever because he knows the space that the defender will need to swing his leg. He plants himself there between Van Dijk and the ball and goes 'hit me and I am going over'.

Van Dijk is unfortunate because he has only got his eyes on the ball as he looks to clear his lines, but it is still a foul, even if it is in the final seconds of the game.

Smart was very brave to give it, but he was right and Lamela did nothing wrong.

From Jenas well, i'm struggling with the hypocrisy and thinking all over this.

[PTP]

i'm torn between this because I've done it myself and i'm 100% convinced I did not dive or cheat - so how do you draw the line?

slightly different scenario - my team where 2-1 down with about 30 mins to go in a cup qtr final - we weren't playing particularly well and didn't look like getting an equaliser.

I made a run into the left hand side of the box chasing a looping ball from the right which had gone over the defenders head - I was running away from goal with the ball almost dropping over my shoulder - i'd have had to been Messi to control it on the run and do anything to really threaten - I'd seen the centre back charging across - he was never getting there before me and he was steaming over - So I just took my touch and in doing so positioned myself between the ball and defender and just waited for the challenge/him to clatter into me.....which he did as soon as I was hit I was down and the penalty was awarded - no one on their team or my own thought or suggested i'd dived, which I hadn't.......but I clearly know/remember thinking as I ran onto the ball "i'll win a penalty here" I defo didn't dive, but I defo made and won the penalty and I have zero guilt about it I thought to myself, this is my best option, I haven't got much else on and if I bring this down i'm running into nowhere - had the defender not clattered into me, however I wouldn't have gone down or wasn't on my way down - if the contact hadn't have come, I basically would have took a touch and found myself heading almost towards the corner flag, on my own, trying to control the bouncing looping cross on a **** pitch with a defender behind me and no support.

As the contact did come, and it was pretty significant contact, I was down and the penalty was given - it was a blatant pen imo - think the calvert lewin/derby incident, except I didn't make any obvious movement to jump into the defender - I just put my body inbetween the ball/defender and waited

oh - we scored the penalty and went on to win 3-2 and went to the final which we won it turned out to be my last ever 11 a side season

[Red_Polo]

Feeling contact and going down potentially exaggerates the situation.

To stop playing your normal game and seek whatever minimal contact possible in order to go down is quite another - doesn't just exaggerate but actively engineers the situation.

[McDermotX]

[ame]https://twitter.com/TimesSport/status/960539010782322689[/ame]

Clattenburg voicing his opinion. Behind a registration wall for me, but think the gist is neither were pens (probably because of the offsides)............oh, and Alli is a cheating *******. But we knew that part anyway.

Hopefully there'll be at least a suspension for the ref and linesman for displaying their complete incompetence, not to mention evidence of them looking to enforce rules outside of current refereeing guidelines - something that's been levelled in the past in the PL.

Sooner VAR and a revert back to 'if you're standing offside, you're ****ing offside' comes back the better.

[Red_Polo]

It doesn’t matter whether either was a foul; whether there was contact and whether, if there was, it was enough to bring the attacker down. There’s almost always going to be some subjectivity there. But it doesn’t matter if either was in fact a foul because neither penalty should have been awarded anyhow.

So says the Premier League’s former top official, Mark Clattenburg, pointing to both plays being offside in the buildup to the called penalties and saying that if VAR—video assistant referee—was in place in England, both would have been ruled no penalty on review as a result of that incontrovertible fact.

“The ball is touched by Fernando Llorente and into Erik Lamela, who is fractionally offside,” Clattenburg said of the second incident—that earned Spurs a point. “As we have seen with VAR now, offside is a matter of fact and no benefit is given to the attacking team. Therefore, no penalty should have been allowed.”

As to the first, while there was contact on the ball by Dejan Lovren as it was played to Kane, Clattenburg noted allowing a player in an offside position to collect a ball when it’s played intentionally by a defender—as with a back pass—is different to it being touched in an attempt to stop it being played to an offside player.

Kane was offside. Lovren brushed the ball as he stretched to try to stop it being played to Kane by a Tottenham attacker. His decision was influenced by the player standing offside. Whether Lovren touched it is immaterial—just that he didn’t play it deliberately in the direction of Kane. It was an offside play.

Neither penalty was, by the laws of the game, a penalty. And that’s without even having to decide whether Harry Kane dove for the first or sufficient contact was made on Erik Lamela on the second. There is no grey area. Both were offside and VAR would have overturned both.

https://liverpooloffside.sbnation.com/liverpool-fc-news-coverage/2018/2/5/16973424/mark-clattenburg-tottenham-penalties-harry-kane-lamela-offside-liverpool-tottenham-var

[Exiled_red]

to add - apparently Sky have said at no point did Martin Atkinson (the 4th official) turn to check or ask to look at any monitor so therefore he had no input in the above conversation.

Basically the referee, gave the penalty - was unsure if the ball was played by Lovren, so therefore can only assume that Kane is offside? so gave the penalty anyway.

Also on another point - the offside rule is a mess....Kane is offside, however has Lovren attempts to play the ball and touches it on - he's now played Kane onside???

However, Lovren, doesn't know if Kane is offside or not so his instinct will always be to play the ball....he's hardly just going to leave it to run on when he see's Kane out the corner of his vision move towards the ball. Basically the ref is saying, had Lovren completely missed the ball then he wouldn't have given the pen?

But - lets give the ref some credit in that - he felt it was a pen in his initial instinct/reaction and he stuck to it, ignoring the linesman - rightly or wrongly at least he stuck to his decision......so why then, for the next one does he completely ignore his own instinct this time, and choose to go with the linesman?

it's a complete cluster ****


That said, id still feel the draw was the fair result and i'll take it and move on.

It's really frustrating. In the past I have tried to defend referees because as we know it is a difficult job and without technology you can't expect them to get every decision right. As long as due process is carried out I don't have a problem with it. This means that a referee can't give what he doesn't see, so you might miss out on a clear cut penalty being awarded because the ref didn't see or wasn't sure, however this is offset by the fact that you should never have a penalty awarded against you that isn't a penalty. I was (fairly) happy with that situation, but the last couple of seasons that seems to have been eroded and referees are now guessing at decisions which is entirely inappropriate.

Also the notion that it all evens itself out over the season is total BS, we've been on the receiving end of a number of these dodgy decisions that have cost us point this year.

Yes a draw yesterday was a fair result, but that's not how football works, so many times we have been the better side and not got the result we deserved, so I can take little consolation from that notion.

[Exiled_red]

https://liverpooloffside.sbnation.co...-tottenham-var

[Lecter]

i'm torn between this because I've done it myself and i'm 100% convinced I did not dive or cheat - so how do you draw the line?

slightly different scenario - my team where 2-1 down with about 30 mins to go in a cup qtr final - we weren't playing particularly well and didn't look like getting an equaliser.

I made a run into the left hand side of the box chasing a looping ball from the right which had gone over the defenders head - I was running away from goal with the ball almost dropping over my shoulder - i'd have had to been Messi to control it on the run and do anything to really threaten - I'd seen the centre back charging across - he was never getting there before me and he was steaming over - So I just took my touch and in doing so positioned myself between the ball and defender and just waited for the challenge/him to clatter into me.....which he did as soon as I was hit I was down and the penalty was awarded - no one on their team or my own thought or suggested i'd dived, which I hadn't.......but I clearly know/remember thinking as I ran onto the ball "i'll win a penalty here" I defo didn't dive, but I defo made and won the penalty and I have zero guilt about it I thought to myself, this is my best option, I haven't got much else on and if I bring this down i'm running into nowhere - had the defender not clattered into me, however I wouldn't have gone down or wasn't on my way down - if the contact hadn't have come, I basically would have took a touch and found myself heading almost towards the corner flag, on my own, trying to control the bouncing looping cross on a **** pitch with a defender behind me and no support.

As the contact did come, and it was pretty significant contact, I was down and the penalty was given - it was a blatant pen imo - think the calvert lewin/derby incident, except I didn't make any obvious movement to jump into the defender - I just put my body inbetween the ball/defender and waited

oh - we scored the penalty and went on to win 3-2 and went to the final which we won it turned out to be my last ever 11 a side season

Very different situations

Dangling your leg to make contact or jumping into a player as he attempts to clear the ball is different to the situation you presented

If I was the defender in your scenario I would have held my hands up and blamed my own stupidity but I would have slaughtered Pamela for his ****housery

[Shaggy]

[marcus50bucks]

Referee Jon Moss rightly awarded first Harry Kane penalty at Liverpool, PGMOL says

By Lyall Thomas
Last Updated: 05/02/18 5:22pm

Referee Jon Moss was right to award Harry Kane's first Tottenham penalty against Liverpool and his decision was not influenced by the fourth official, Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL) has insisted.

PGMOL has defended Moss over his handling of the incident at Anfield after he appeared unsure whether the ball had touched Dejan Lovren before reaching Kane, who would have been offside had it not.

After a lengthy discussion with assistant Ed Smart, Moss asked fourth official Martin Atkinson if he had "got anything from TV", which PGMOL have admitted was a mistake, but the referee was always aware that a Red shirt had touched the ball on the way through.

A PGMOL spokesman said: "Jon Moss was in a good position to see that a Liverpool player deliberately played the ball before it fell to Harry Kane in the penalty area. He then correctly judged that Kane was fouled by Lorius Karius.

"However, given the speed of the attack, he was uncertain of the identity of the Liverpool player who kicked the ball. Eddie Smart, having identified that Kane was in an offside position, correctly sought clarification on whether Dejan Lovren had deliberately played the ball.

"His question created some momentary confusion when Eddie asked if 'Lovren' had touched the ball. Moss knew a Liverpool player had touched the ball but not that it was Lovren.

"He then asked a question to his fourth official Martin Atkinson and acknowledges that referencing 'TV' was misguided. Atkinson did not reply to the question and so had no involvement in the decision.

"Having properly reflected on the questions asked, Jon knew that a Liverpool player, now identified as Lovren, had played the ball and that no offside offence had occurred. He then awarded the penalty.

"For the avoidance of doubt, Atkinson did not view a television monitor and did not relay any information to the on-field officials.

"In real time this was a difficult series of decisions, which the match officials judged correctly in recognising that Kane was not offside, as Lovren had deliberately played the ball, and he was fouled for the award of the penalty kick.

"The interpretation of 'deliberately' kicking a ball considers whether a player has intentionally tried to kick a ball - it does not consider whether the ball ends up where a player may have wanted to kick it."

http://www.skysports.com/football/ne...ool-pgmol-says

That is an absolutely scandalous statement by the PGMOL. I can't believe what I've just read. It's a complete cover up of Moss's failings. He's now saying that he knew a Liverpool player had touched the ball but didn't know who it was. What utter bollocks. He clearly consulted his linesman as he hadn't a clue if a Liverpool player had touched it. And let's be honest what does it matter which player had touched it anyway? Had Robertson Matip or any other player touched it, would it have made any difference ass to whether Kane was offside or not . It's an embarrassing statement