Harvey Elliott

[danperkins]

Why?

Plenty of guys with his pace, his height and general size/weight that are excellent footballers in the PL and in other top leagues.

He is still only 19 and will only get physically stronger in the coming years so he adds that and a bit more positional awareness (which will probably come too), and there is no reason why he cannot do very well in certain positions.

And more than plenty have not. He's talented and has time on his hands. Hopefully he progresses.

[Rich]

He's small and not fast, so he really needs to work on his strength to make sure he's stronger on the ball. I'm sure the fitness coaches will be looking at that.

[Daniel 7]

I'm not sure he's actually that fast, it's just his little legs have to move fast to keep up with normal Premier League pace, so it looks like he's quick. I think Jaco is probably right that the 433 and playing on the right of central midfield isn't right for him, a completely free role behind the striker in a 4231 would probably be best, but didn't we have exactly this issue with Shaq? Difference is Elliott isn't as stocky and pumped up as Shaq.

I'm not convinced.

[Doc_Piptorious]

And more than plenty have not. He's talented and has time on his hands. Hopefully he progresses.

I still do not get what you think, for him specifically, that his size and pace will be an issue. Am just curious what in particular is standing out for you that has you saying those two things are a worry potenially.

He is not usually small, he is not unusually slight and he is not unusually slow be it sprinting or accelerating from standing. Actually think his acceleration from standing is pretty good over the first five or so yards without being blistering or anything like that.

Not saying he is a nailed on to be a world beater or even to be top class, however he does look, at the age of 19, to have the tools to go on to be a solid player at the very least.

[SB]

I still do not get what you think, for him specifically, that his size and pace will be an issue. Am just curious what in particular is standing out for you that has you saying those two things are a worry potenially.

He is not usually small, he is not unusually slight and he is not unusually slow be it sprinting or accelerating from standing. Actually think his acceleration from standing is pretty good over the first five or so yards without being blistering or anything like that.

Not saying he is a nailed on to be a world beater or even to be top class, however he does look, at the age of 19, to have the tools to go on to be a solid player at the very least.

Don’t knock yourself out Jaco, most ppl don’t either

The young fella handled the physicality of the Championship just fine & I don’t have any concerns for him going forward.

[Venton]

I don't think he's fast enough for the premiership, that's the problem. I've seen him quite a bit and I don't think I've ever seen him beat anyone for pace. I don't think you can get away with that these days.

[Fivex]

Guy’s got gait tho

[SB]

I don't think he's fast enough for the premiership, that's the problem. I've seen him quite a bit and I don't think I've ever seen him beat anyone for pace. I don't think you can get away with that these days.

Maybe not fast enough to play on the wing but centrally I don’t see it as so much of an issue. Thiago has made a pretty good career despite being slower than most. Acceleration over 5-10m to find space & a good reading of the game are just as important imo.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I don't think he's fast enough for the premiership, that's the problem. I've seen him quite a bit and I don't think I've ever seen him beat anyone for pace. I don't think you can get away with that these days.

Depends on the position he is used in surely? And on how that position is used within the team.

As an out and out winger or as a number 8 I could see him failing, but as an AM be it a CAM or RAM or even as an RM if used wide, then blistering pace is less of a requirement compared to the ability to link play quickly, spot runs and play accurate passes.

[danperkins]

I still do not get what you think, for him specifically, that his size and pace will be an issue. Am just curious what in particular is standing out for you that has you saying those two things are a worry potenially.

He is not usually small, he is not unusually slight and he is not unusually slow be it sprinting or accelerating from standing. Actually think his acceleration from standing is pretty good over the first five or so yards without being blistering or anything like that.

Not saying he is a nailed on to be a world beater or even to be top class, however he does look, at the age of 19, to have the tools to go on to be a solid player at the very least.

Prem is just getting faster and more physically demanding. As a winger I just don't think he has the tools, if he is played more centrally who knows. It's early days and he does have talent but we'll see how he progresses. He has done ok so far and it was great to see him get on the scoresheet vs Rangers.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Prem is just getting faster and more physically demanding. As a winger I just don't think he has the tools, if he is played more centrally who knows. It's early days and he does have talent but we'll see how he progresses. He has done ok so far and it was great to see him get on the scoresheet vs Rangers.

Don't think anyone is suggesting he looks to have the pace to be an out and out winger though.


Playing as a wide playmaker/RAM/RM or whatever term gets used nowadays requires less pace though, as would a central AM or maybe even a support striker style role. Creativity and acceleration over three to five yards is probably more important there along with the sort of skillset to play quick and clever balls ahead of the guys looking to make a run.


Time will tell of course, but he does look to potentially have a lot of the tools needed to develop what is needed for one of the less pace/strength orientated roles.

Of course against a good team, let alone a really good one like City, I do not want to see him in either the RCM or RW role.

[Venton]

You have to be able to get back to cover the defence sharpish in Klopp's system though. Not sure he has the legs to do that, I've noticed he's been late back a couple of times. That might just be getting used to the system though.

[Doc_Piptorious]

You have to be able to get back to cover the defence sharpish in Klopp's system though. Not sure he has the legs to do that, I've noticed he's been late back a couple of times. That might just be getting used to the system though.

Two things on that.

One is that it is probably more a case of him, if used in an advanced attacking/creative role like the AM role, getting fully adjusted to the triggers for our press and getting in synch with the other guys.

Guys like Thiago and Keita (when he is not dead) are not fast guys but can both trigger a press and react fluidly to a trigger.

Certain positions, within the systems Klopp has utilised to date, seem to need pace more than others especially defensively be it a passive defensive move or an aggressive one like a team press.


The second thing is looking at him and saying Klopp system.

Yes we still have a bit over three and a half years of Klopp to go, but when Klopp goes he will still be only 22 or 23, so still very much in that stage of not being fully developed and having up to then more years ahead of him so as much as he needs, as the bit player he currently is, to be adapting to playing within a Klopp system, he is going to have far more years playing within someone else's system.


And am going to cheat now and turn my two things into three.


The third one is that our system/set up this season is missing the press and the ability to trigger that press more due to the drop off in physicality and/or perfromance of more senior players who should have more defensive responsibility and trigger starting duties than it is down to an offensive minded 19 year old.

Elliot is responsible for some of the gaps in the team this season, however imo he is also slightly absolved as he does not say where he plays and he very obviously needs coaches honing his instincts on the training ground and maybe more importantly some senior players coaching him ore through games at times.

Only thing I am 100% sure of though is that he is a 19 year old getting his first proper run of games in our first team and he is playing within a team that is creaking and lacking fluidity.

I would be more concerned about Henderson, VVD, TAA, Robertson (prior to his injury) and at times Salah (though his underlying stats suggest he has not dropped off that much, just that he is playing in a misfiring team)

Throw in Fabinho looking fatigued, and we have most of the guys we called mentality monsters all looking either out of sorts or making more uncharactersitic errors than we are used to seeing.

Add in all of our back up midfield players being out injured or being unavailable for whatever reason and it is a perfect storm of lack of form, physical decline and lack of cover.

Elliot (and Carvalho for that matter) get a pass in my eyes. Yes both cause gaps and I tend to cringe when I see both in the same starting line up. But both are kids and need a season at least, maybe two, to grow into the team and to gain the experience needed to be less green positionally and less green with regards to becomeing part of the team movemnets at a competitive level.

[Venton]

Oh, he definitely has time on his side, I have no worries about him adapting or his overall skill level. I do worry about the overall mobility of that midfield though. We never really replaced Wijnaldum's dynamism - if Fab is out we pretty much rely on Thiago, Henderson and Elliott, and that doesn't feel vigorous enough to sustain our press to me, or to get back when we lose the ball high up (which we do).

[danperkins]

Don't think anyone is suggesting he looks to have the pace to be an out and out winger though.


Playing as a wide playmaker/RAM/RM or whatever term gets used nowadays requires less pace though, as would a central AM or maybe even a support striker style role. Creativity and acceleration over three to five yards is probably more important there along with the sort of skillset to play quick and clever balls ahead of the guys looking to make a run.


Time will tell of course, but he does look to potentially have a lot of the tools needed to develop what is needed for one of the less pace/strength orientated roles.

Of course against a good team, let alone a really good one like City, I do not want to see him in either the RCM or RW role.

Time will tell, he's still young and it might take time to see what his best position is but I'm not getting carried away. Good potential, see how he goes.