Mitigation : our injury list

[Buzzo]

So we have Van Dijk, Gomez, Matip out for the season. Fabinho out. Jota on a long term injury and we missed Thiago for ages (though arguably we were doing alright without him).

We now throw in a long term injury for Henderson. And that is without looking at the injuries we’ve had.

How would the other top teams squads look without 3 CBs, a defensive Mid?

This would mean Man City would be without:
Stones, Diaz, Laporte, (3 CB) Rodri (Fab) Mahrez (Jota) Gundogan (Hendo)

Man Utd:
Maguire, Lindelof, Bailly (3 CBs) Mctominay (Fab) Rashford (Jota) Pogba (Hendo)

Leicester:
Soyuncu, Evans, Fofana (3 CBs) Ndidi (Fab) Perez (Jota) Tielemens (Hendo)

Chelsea:
Azpilicueta, Zouma, Silva (3 CBs) Kante (Fab) Werner (Jota) Mount (Hendo)

Everton:
Keane, Mina, Holgate (3 CBs) Doucoure (Fab) Richarlison (Jota) Gomes (Hendo)

Arguably only Leicester and Everton have less squad depth than us. Imagine all of these teams without the listed players for most of the season. All of the above teams would have to be featuring defensive lineups featuring either player none of us have heard off or players playing out of position. They would struggle.

So this season is a dud for us, but with plenty of mitigation and with a few new transfers no reason to think we won’t be right back at the top next season.

As much as I want to believe otherwise we won’t win the CL with Kabak and Fabinho (at best) or Phillips as our Centre Backs.

[Maxiedge]

Yes Buzzo

Tbh, there's no need to go into so much detail about it. We are handling it better than any other team as we have had Hendo and Fabinho, two midfield leaders that have footballing brains and have been able to adapt as CBs. Any other team would be bottom half already as the rot would have started pre-Xmas.

[Buzzo]

Yes Buzzo

Tbh, there's no need to go into so much detail about it. We are handling it better than any other team as we have had Hendo and Fabinho, two midfield leaders that have footballing brains and have been able to adapt as CBs. Any other team would be bottom half already as the rot would have started pre-Xmas.

[Kenneth]

You've put some work in there Buzzo, so I won't dismiss it with a one liner. But, it shouldn't be crippling our offensive game to the extent we are seeing. Our front three is the same front three that were the highest scoring forward line in Europe over the last couple of years, the loss of Jota, while big for us because of the poor form of Bobby and Mane is not equivalent to one of the teams listed losing a long term regular striker option, only the Werner one is really equivalent, and maybe not that because he's been ****e. We have been able to play a supposedly strong midfield nearly all season. While our injuries may justify most of the points lost, the way we have lost them suggests it's not the only narrative imo.

[Maxiedge]

sorry I didn't mean that in a bad way Just that there aren't many teams that have two midfielders with the nous of Hendo/Fabinho. Some teams can handle it better than others.

Matip/Fabinho was fab, took us to top of the league
Fab/Hendo was not bad, doable. Definite top 4.

BIG GAP

Hendo/[insert name], has been nothing short of traumatic. Not even worth watching as we have become so susceptible at the back.

[danperkins]

Absolutely no doubts the injuries have hugely impacted us but by the same token that doesn't excuse Mane, Bobby, Trent, Robbo, Gini, Thiago all playing **** at the same time and for long periods of time, Bobby & Trent in particular That's 6 players who if were playing to their best, would get into most teams in the world. The whole squads form has just fallen off a cliff & Klopp himself looks demoralised.

[Maxiedge]

You've put some work in there Buzzo, so I won't dismiss it with a one liner. But, it shouldn't be crippling our offensive game to the extent we are seeing. Our front three is the same front three that were the highest scoring forward line in Europe over the last couple of years, the loss of Jota, while big for us because of the poor form of Bobby and Mane is not equivalent to one of the teams listed losing a long term regular striker option, only the Werner one is really equivalent, and maybe not that because he's been ****e. We have been able to play a supposedly strong midfield nearly all season. While our injuries may justify most of the points lost, the way we have lost them suggests it's not the only narrative imo.

Have we? Milner's been carrying a hammy all season. Surprised they didn't wheel him out last game.
Ox is gone.
Keita dunno.
Jones have high hopes for but he's still relatively inexperienced.
Thiago can't play his usual game as he's cacking himself at losing the ball with our current backline.
Gini has one foot in Barca.

I 100% agree that Firmino is off the boil and we could have picked up more points if he was in top form.

[Buzzo]

You've put some work in there Buzzo, so I won't dismiss it with a one liner. But, it shouldn't be crippling our offensive game to the extent we are seeing. Our front three is the same front three that were the highest scoring forward line in Europe over the last couple of years, the loss of Jota, while big for us because of the poor form of Bobby and Mane is not equivalent to one of the teams listed losing a long term regular striker option, only the Werner one is really equivalent, and maybe not that because he's been ****e. We have been able to play a supposedly strong midfield nearly all season. While our injuries may justify most of the points lost, the way we have lost them suggests it's not the only narrative imo.

It does though because the foundation of any successful team is built on the defence. Our ability to defend high and compress the game is due to the fact that Virgil and Joe (or Joel) can defend high and cover the space behind. Then, Hendo is in midfield and has the intelligence to cover the full backs, as does Fab. That gives the platform for the forwards.

I agree that 2 of them have come in short which is a worry, but, they’d be getting more space and creating more chances and therefor scoring lore goals if we had an elite level Centre Back pairing - not one that would struggle to get a gig in the Championship.

[Kenneth]

Now obviously, disruption in defense has a knock on effect, but Klopp's decisions may have actually increased that. Fab is one of the best CDMs around, and an OK CB, so keeping him in MF, covering for actual, but inexperienced, CBs should have limited the impact on our overall play. Ok, we would probably have conceded more goals but could have continued creating them too. The manager's lack of trust in Phillips seems like a poor decision to me. And if we can't afford such an attacking wingback approach with VVD out, then we have to change shape, because 3 in midfield without as much support down the flanks is a recipe for being over run, or bypassed on the counter, which we have seen this season too often.

So yes, injuries are a big mitigation, but we haven't mitigated against them well either.

[Buzzo]

Until Matip got injured we were the top scorers in the League.

I felt we might be able to see it home (as in not implode, stay near the top and maybe do well in the CL) with Matip and Fab at the back along with a signing and Hendo as cover.

We have lost three of those options.

[danperkins]

Klopp has made mistakes and is struggling to find a system to play with the current crop. When Plan A fails, try Plan A. It does seem like we only have one way of playing and with the current injuries and form that clearly is not working and hasn't been for months. That injury list though WTF like, I have never seen anything like it. For me, it all boils down to not replacing Lovren in the summer, such an unnecessary risk & one that has backfired spectacularly.

[Buzzo]

Now obviously, disruption in defense has a knock on effect, but Klopp's decisions may have actually increased that. Fab is one of the best CDMs around, and an OK CB, so keeping him in MF, covering for actual, but inexperienced, CBs should have limited the impact on our overall play. Ok, we would probably have conceded more goals but could have continued creating them too. The manager's lack of trust in Phillips seems like a poor decision to me.

There have been errors in judgement for sure. But again the unprecedented nature of the situation is mitigation. Clearly Klopp sees value in having a ball playing Centre back and Phillips isn’t that. Would we be better sticking with him? We are about to find out. Because he will play a lot of games now.

[Kenneth]

There have been errors in judgement for sure. But again the unprecedented nature of the situation is mitigation. Clearly Klopp sees value in having a ball playing Centre back and Phillips isn’t that. Would we be better sticking with him? We are about to find out. Because he will play a lot of games now.

We won't know, because we no longer have Hendo or Fab stepping forward, so now we have inexperienced CBs plus a bunch of meh in midfield.

I would like to see us drop back, be more compact, with Salah or Mane up on their own and 5 across the middle, Firmino benched, personally.

[Buzzo]

We won't know, because we no longer have Hendo or Fab stepping forward, so now we have inexperienced CBs plus a bunch of meh in midfield.

I would like to see us drop back, be more compact, with Salah or Mane up on their own and 5 across the middle personally.

Same.

If we go 4-3-3 next time Om not watching.

A new formation could also bring the best out of the likes of Ox and Shaq etc.

[Mark79]

Same.

If we go 4-3-3 next time Om not watching.

A new formation could also bring the best out of the likes of Ox and Shaq etc.

Maybe 4-2-3-1

- - - - - - - - Ali
TAA - Kabak - Philips - Robbo
- - - - - -Fab - Gini
- - Shaq - Thiago - Mane
- - - - - - - Salah

Could even put Davies in if we want a more balanced CB pairing.
2 of our next 3 games are against essentially Championship level squads so shouldn’t be a stretch for him.

Although, I think our 433 will become a different proposition again when/if Fab, Naby and Jota are back up to speed.