Liverpool v Brighton (H) PL

[Harv]

Absolute ****e.

There is something seriously wrong with TAA, the dude has his head in the clouds over and over again.

As a team we seem so weak, the amount times players get the slightest bit of contact and gt knocked off the ball is staggering. Look at Hendo for their first goal. FFS, you've got be stronger than that.

Mo needs to be dropped, been saying it all season. He's signed his big fat contract and now we're getting this halfarsed ****e, cant even beat anyone dribbling anymore, gets knocked off the ball easily, pissweak shooting. Garbage

[dizzycat]

Couldn't even watch that one live because I gave my laptop to my son for Uni. Just watched the highlights and thought we have a long way to go Energy, confidence and verve has gone and been replaced with an insecure, static system where the players aren't working for the man on the ball. Defending for a couple of the goals was horrific and Fab is way too stretched to deliver anything like the levels he is capable of.We need strengthening and I think we probably need two more starters in January if we want to have a good go at the cups

[Norbs]

If you don't have players to play the system change the effing system

[el matador]

This team is unrecognisable from the one that dominated everyone. We’re now the ones getting roughed up by opposition. Feels like every time brighton attacked we could concede. The right hand side looks especially vulnerable and yesterday the midfield left huge spaces for Brighton to play in. Alisson kept it to three but Brighton could have had the game win by half time - very similar to Napoli.

We can be got at which isn’t something I’ve thought for a number of years.

[kingfunk]

The system has very obviously changed, and imo the players don’t believe in it.

[el matador]

In trying to make our play less predictable we’ve made ourselves easier to play against.

[BigChief]

If this really is the birth of Ljinders-ball and Klopp is grooming him for succession then fair enough I can take a seasonal hit to get the system on boarded, provided we scrape top four which lets face it is probably damn easy considering the state of our opposition (Utd, Chelsea, Spurs, soon Arsenal when they bottle it by January).

Maybe this is what's confusing TAA and VvD so much right now.

[Doc_Piptorious]

If you don't have players to play the system change the effing system

If you look at the heat maps of the average positions for each player this season, it would appear that we have changed the system and seem to be trying to play with some sort of overload on the right flank over and over.

Salah is player wider on average this season than in any of his past seasons.

The RCM is playing further wide and further forward than in previous seasons.

TAA is staying much further forward for longer in games and he is curring in from the right where Salah used to, so TAA is often ending up almost in a CAM position at times.

No idea what the tactical idea behind the changes are, only thing I can think of is to create an offensive overload down the other team's left flank, but what it seems to be doing is just creating complete instability down our right flank and through the right side of the midfield.

Seems to be making us very easy to counter against and allowing teams to just push into the same gaps that are there game after game.

Easy for me to say this as an armchair pilot, but going back to our previous syetem where the RCM would cover more when TAA went forward, and Salah would cut in when TAA was in the RW slot makes more sense to me. At least until the ship is steadied more.

It is not as though we can even say that we are trying changes to fit Darwin into the team similar to how City have tweaked their set up to fit Haaland. We seem to have made the changes but are using them without the guy they might suit.

All we are getting now is Salah stuck to the touchline level with the 18 yard line, TAA cutting inside him and ending up at the edge of the box, and the RCM on the right wing not a million miles from Salah.

One of the heat maps did a combined starting XI map for the past seven league games along with the two CL games, and the entire botton right quarter of the map showed up with lots of light colours reflecting how badly manned that part of the pitch is all the time.

Only positive I can take from the weird overload system, or whatever it is, is that it does appear to lead to the central attacker getting more chances/goals than usual hence Firmino having 5 goals and 3 assists from 5 starts in the league.

Shame it is causing as many to fly in at the other end

[pass and move]

This team is unrecognisable from the one that dominated everyone. We’re now the ones getting roughed up by opposition. Feels like every time brighton attacked we could concede. The right hand side looks especially vulnerable and yesterday the midfield left huge spaces for Brighton to play in. Alisson kept it to three but Brighton could have had the game win by half time - very similar to Napoli.

We can be got at which isn’t something I’ve thought for a number of years.

[Charly]

Firmino is getting great numbers, but the right hand side is awful. I think its the right mid that seems to be a mess. Salah and TAA can do the same job without Hendo being that far forward

[Exiled_red]

If you look at the heat maps of the average positions for each player this season, it would appear that we have changed the system and seem to be trying to play with some sort of overload on the right flank over and over.

Salah is player wider on average this season than in any of his past seasons.

The RCM is playing further wide and further forward than in previous seasons.

TAA is staying much further forward for longer in games and he is curring in from the right where Salah used to, so TAA is often ending up almost in a CAM position at times.

No idea what the tactical idea behind the changes are, only thing I can think of is to create an offensive overload down the other team's left flank, but what it seems to be doing is just creating complete instability down our right flank and through the right side of the midfield.

Seems to be making us very easy to counter against and allowing teams to just push into the same gaps that are there game after game.

Easy for me to say this as an armchair pilot, but going back to our previous syetem where the RCM would cover more when TAA went forward, and Salah would cut in when TAA was in the RW slot makes more sense to me. At least until the ship is steadied more.

It is not as though we can even say that we are trying changes to fit Darwin into the team similar to how City have tweaked their set up to fit Haaland. We seem to have made the changes but are using them without the guy they might suit.

All we are getting now is Salah stuck to the touchline level with the 18 yard line, TAA cutting inside him and ending up at the edge of the box, and the RCM on the right wing not a million miles from Salah.

One of the heat maps did a combined starting XI map for the past seven league games along with the two CL games, and the entire botton right quarter of the map showed up with lots of light colours reflecting how badly manned that part of the pitch is all the time.

Only positive I can take from the weird overload system, or whatever it is, is that it does appear to lead to the central attacker getting more chances/goals than usual hence Firmino having 5 goals and 3 assists from 5 starts in the league.

Shame it is causing as many to fly in at the other end

Is this a deliberate decision by management or a consequence of the players? Previously we have tended to have Henderson as the right CM, he has been covering for TAA. Elliott has played there alot this season, he is a more attack minded player than Henderson. He doesn't fill in for TAA like Henderson did, Elliott playing a bit further forward probably pushes Salah wider to find space.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Is this a deliberate decision by management or a consequence of the players? Previously we have tended to have Henderson as the right CM, he has been covering for TAA. Elliott has played there alot this season, he is a more attack minded player than Henderson. He doesn't fill in for TAA like Henderson did, Elliott playing a bit further forward probably pushes Salah wider to find space.

If it happened in a single game or so, then maybe it is down to the players, but nine competitive games with the same pattern? That suggests it is probably something tactical.

Also the RCM is doing the same thing even when Elliot is not starting there.

Yesterday's game saw that same lop sided to the right thing going on postionally.

Salah playing wider and staying there nullifies a lot of what he brings as well.

Salah was our cut in onto his good foot and cause chaos guy, with TAA meant to be the stay wide and ping in crosses guy.

This season Salah is staying wide and TAA is cutting in. To me that looks like Salah's left foot is then not naturally in a position to strike at goal or cross unless he checks his run, and TAA cutting in means his weaker foot is the one with the natural angle to take a shot.

I'm sure there are more complex patterns and tactical ideas behind it all, but to a fan's eye it seems we are hampering ourselves and giving the teams we play an obvious weakness to focus on and benefit from.

There seems to be other issues throughout the starting XI, but that right sided change appears, on the surface, to be the most self inflicted issue.

[npinn001]

If it happened in a single game or so, then maybe it is down to the players, but nine competitive games with the same pattern? That suggests it is probably something tactical.



Also the RCM is doing the same thing even when Elliot is not starting there.



Yesterday's game saw that same lop sided to the right thing going on postionally.



Salah playing wider and staying there nullifies a lot of what he brings as well.



Salah was our cut in onto his good foot and cause chaos guy, with TAA meant to be the stay wide and ping in crosses guy.



This season Salah is staying wide and TAA is cutting in. To me that looks like Salah's left foot is then not naturally in a position to strike at goal or cross unless he checks his run, and TAA cutting in means his weaker foot is the one with the natural angle to take a shot.



I'm sure there are more complex patterns and tactical ideas behind it all, but to a fan's eye it seems we are hampering ourselves and giving the teams we play an obvious weakness to focus on and benefit from.



There seems to be other issues throughout the starting XI, but that right sided change appears, on the surface, to be the most self inflicted issue.

It seems sort of obvious based on that, that this change requires quick, tactically aware players right across the midfield, which we lack.

[Doc_Piptorious]

It seems sort of obvious based on that, that this change requires quick, tactically aware players right across the midfield, which we lack.

I genuinely think that one mobile and technically good RCM would solve a lot.

Banged the drum a lot for him but a Barella style RCM would be a game changer and a back up RCM/DM like Laimer or similar would add legs, physicality and genuine ball winning qualities.

We have Fabinho who is an excellent DM when let do that job.

We have Thiago who is an excellent LCM/CM.

But we then have a massive drop off in quality for the RCM slot.

We play Elliot there and we have a really talented young lad who through no fault of his own is imio simply not experienced enough or aware enough to play as a RCM. I also think he is not a natural fit for a central midfield role and think he might be better served as an AM or a RM.

We have Henderson who in the past did have the physical qualities to be a very effective RCM but he is a shadow of the player he once was in that respect (in a being able to do it every week kind of way). Again is through no fault of the player as it is as simple as time catching up with him. These days Henderson should be the back up DM and the back up RCM who plays every now and then to allow him to leave it all out there knowing there will be a long rest period before he is needed again.

Jones is injured and tends to play better as a LCM.

Chamberlain is injured and even if not is not the sort of RCM we need.

Milner is 112 years of age and further along the age catching him path than Henderson.

Keita would actually be a decent foil in there as he presses well, is press resistant, moves the ball on well and links well with both Thiago and Fabinho. With him alongside Fab/Thiago we would probably be able to have more periods of control and be gutted through the middle and right less often. Bit Keita is another who is missing a lot so falls into the same boat as a lot of the names above.

Have to be honest and say that if he were fully fit I would be trying to see if we could get a partnership going between Thiago and Arthur playing ahead of Fabinho. I know Arthur is more of a LCM and a bit of a Thiago lite in style, but that bit of extra technical ability and extra reading of play in the middle could not hurt. We not gain any dynamic play or extra physicality in the middle but we do not have it right now anyway.

Would also rest TAA for some games. Play Gomez at RB and let him go forward as he did in that role towards the end of last season but take advantage of the fact he will err on the side of caution when it comes to leaving space behind him.

Would also start rotating Matip and Konate a little bit or even playing Konate in some games to give VVD an extra rest (be it physical or mental) every now and then.


Basically line up for a few games with something like



Diaz----------------Nunez----------------Salah
-------Thiago-------------------Arthur---------
------------------Fabinho----------------------
Rob/Tsimi----VVD-------Mat/Kon--------Gomez
-------------------Alisson------------------------


What we are doing is not working, so a few tweaks to the starting line up makes sense I think. Worst that can happen is the mixed form continues and that the feeling we have a domestic hiding coming at some point.

[Kenneth]

Watching city take Utd apart in 45 mins, we’re miles off. Even if tinkering improved us, regaining that kind of fluidity and collective understanding takes months, even seasons to develop.