Home Grown / Foreign Players Thread

[Paul12]

Also Pitaluga, Jaros, Beck, Koumetio and Lewis are all players who if we wanted them to be involved would need to be included in the main squad but would also count as HG.

There is merit in using a HG slot for a 3rd choice keeper but really you need players in these spots to be contributing something, I suspect that this year could be the last where there are a couple of free hit spots available.

With the players we have at the moment you would imagine those places are taken up by Kelleher, Gomez, TAA, Jones who are more or less nailed on (unless they leave), I would imagine that the other slots would be taken up by van den Berg, Morton, Carvalho and one from Phillips, Williams, Beck, Koumetio, Pitaluga and Jaros. In principle we could add a couple more if we didn't sign anymore non-HG players (the 8 HG players is a minimum) but I think that is unlikely, the players who don't make the squad will be either loaned or sold.

Given that in summer 2025 Elliott, Quansah and Bradley will probably be taking 3 of those HG, the players who aren't nailed on but get those spots need to show their worth to the side this season if they are to have a future here going forward.

Being a bit thick, so a simple question....are we in a good place or a bad place on this?

[Exiled_red]

Being a bit thick, so a simple question....are we in a good place or a bad place on this?

My view would be that we are getting better than we have been. In previous years we have struggled to fill the 8 HG spots with players who are actually likely to be involved in the first team (under normal circumstances) I think last year we only had 5 players who could be considered involved in the first team (Kelleher, TAA, Gomez, Jones and Nat Phillips) and you could say Phillips was pushing it.

The following is assuming none of the players currently here move on:

Next season we are likely to have 7 players in those positions: Kelleher, TAA, Gomez, Jones, van den Berg, Morton and Carvalho, with one spot still to be determined. The last 3 all at least have some first team experience on loan and could reasonably be expected to be involved in the first team.

The following season Elliott, Quansah and Bradley would need to be included in the main squad (this coming season they can play but are still counted as youngsters), which makes it 10 players who would count as HG, Bajcetic the year after would make it 11 (chances are some of the players listed here will leave in that period) but it shows that we are moving the number in the right direction. It is worth pointing out that we can have more than 8 HG players in the squad the limit is a maximum of 17 non-HG players (giving 25 in total) meaning if those homegrown spots aren't used your overall squad size is reduced accordingly (if you can only register 7 HG players your max squad size is 24, 6 HG gives a max of 23 etc). The youth thing complicates how good or bad it is a bit because for players U21 they don't have to be registered in the main squad so get a free pass we are benefiting from that at the moment with Quansah, Elliott and Bradley effectively giving us back the 3 empty spots this year that we would otherwise have lost. I guess so long as you have sufficient players of quality in the squad it doesn't matter how they are broken down, but having players who are HG gives more options in the longer term.

The ultimate goal of the HG spots is to reduce the need for so many non-HG players in recent years we have been fairly close to the limit of 17 meaning if we bring in another non-HG player someone has to miss out on playing in the PL or CL we have found ourselves in this position in recent years (or have been saved from it by unregistering someone who was out injured long term.)

[peterbread]

We definitely seem to be in a good spot in terms of young players coming through. To have had so many young players get a taste this season and two of them establishing themselves in the first team squad and being capable of playing big games in that time as well is massive and saves us so much money. You could add Bajčetić from last season to that.

Is it possible to have one or two young players do that consistently every season or two? The level we have seems to have definitely gone up.

Not only does it save money but if you’re a player in the academy you know if you do what you’re being asked and are good enough you’ll get a chance. Plus when it comes to signing players Liverpool would be a better environment than a lot of other clubs right now. And I’m sure a big part of talks with Slot will be that he continues to do this. With the growing reputation we could also make plenty on any we sell off.

I mentioned in the preseason thread that Slot moving the start date up a week will give the young players that extra time to impress and make the first impression that could change some potential transfers in. If we could put more money for example towards one or two transfers rather than three or four and have the young players bulk out the squad it would be great. They didn’t let the team down this season when called upon. As long as it’s not at the detriment to the quality of the squad or course.

[Exiled_red]

You would like to think it is possible to give youngsters opportunities and for a couple each year to push on and establish themselves in the squad, but I'm not sure it is that realistic. Quansah has established himself as a regular but what he did is something of an anomaly to settle into the side so quickly. Bradley has established himself as a squad player but the path to first team regular is more difficult. I would say that what happened with Jones or Elliott taking 3 or 4 years is more typical although their positions did have more competition for places.

I think the other guys who made appearances this season will probably need to go out on loan particularly if the likes of Morton and Carvalho come back and are involved there will likely be fewer opportunities to go around, add in that last year we had the 'benefit' of Europa League to give players games, I am not sure those opportunities would have been as plentiful had we been in the CL. Another factor to consider this year in particular with the new manager coming in is that he doesn't have the security of having won a trophy, Klopp could play the kids in the League Cup or the FA Cup and if we get knocked out no one is on his back. Slot doesn't have that so may be tempted to put out stronger lineups in order to get that first trophy, and that could limit opportunities for youngsters.

[peterbread]

Yeah it’s a fine balance of when and how to use them. Plus the injuries this season helped. I don’t think either Bradley or Quansah play as much if we don’t lose Matip and both left backs and Trent for long periods. And like you said the Europa league was a big factor.

Look at TAA, his opportunity came because of an injury to Clyne.

We would all except the league cup, especially early rounds, as a good place to play some of the young players and rest the first team players.

The Jones and Elliot example is a good one and more realistic. Let them be on the fringes of the squad and gradually work their way up and force the manager over time to play them if they are good enough.

[SB]

My view would be that we are getting better than we have been. In previous years we have struggled to fill the 8 HG spots with players who are actually likely to be involved in the first team (under normal circumstances) I think last year we only had 5 players who could be considered involved in the first team (Kelleher, TAA, Gomez, Jones and Nat Phillips) and you could say Phillips was pushing it.

The following is assuming none of the players currently here move on:

Next season we are likely to have 7 players in those positions: Kelleher, TAA, Gomez, Jones, van den Berg, Morton and Carvalho, with one spot still to be determined. The last 3 all at least have some first team experience on loan and could reasonably be expected to be involved in the first team.

The following season Elliott, Quansah and Bradley would need to be included in the main squad (this coming season they can play but are still counted as youngsters), which makes it 10 players who would count as HG, Bajcetic the year after would make it 11 (chances are some of the players listed here will leave in that period) but it shows that we are moving the number in the right direction. It is worth pointing out that we can have more than 8 HG players in the squad the limit is a maximum of 17 non-HG players (giving 25 in total) meaning if those homegrown spots aren't used your overall squad size is reduced accordingly (if you can only register 7 HG players your max squad size is 24, 6 HG gives a max of 23 etc). The youth thing complicates how good or bad it is a bit because for players U21 they don't have to be registered in the main squad so get a free pass we are benefiting from that at the moment with Quansah, Elliott and Bradley effectively giving us back the 3 empty spots this year that we would otherwise have lost. I guess so long as you have sufficient players of quality in the squad it doesn't matter how they are broken down, but having players who are HG gives more options in the longer term.

The ultimate goal of the HG spots is to reduce the need for so many non-HG players in recent years we have been fairly close to the limit of 17 meaning if we bring in another non-HG player someone has to miss out on playing in the PL or CL we have found ourselves in this position in recent years (or have been saved from it by unregistering someone who was out injured long term.)

[SB]

Just saw this article & this is the right place to discuss it.

https://www.empireofthekop.com/2024/08/05/liverpool-homegrown-quota-premier-league-europe-24-25/

Regular readers will have noticed that we frequently refer to the ‘homegrown quota’ when assessing potential incoming transfer activity for Liverpool.

As the name would suggest, it pertains to the minimum number of players that Premier League clubs such as LFC must have in their first-team squad who were either born or trained in the UK, and how that could duly impact the signings that the hierarchy will seek to bring in.

The rules regarding what constitutes a ‘homegrown’ player usually vary between domestic and European competitions, while there’s also an allowance for under-21 or ‘List B’ players, so there can sometimes be confusion as to where the Reds stand in terms of their respective quotas.

Our explainer aims to clarify where Liverpool are at with their current squad in relation to the various requirements around this subject.


What is the homegrown rule and why is it in place?


In the Premier League, a homegrown player is defined as someone ‘who, irrespective of nationality or age, has been registered with any FA-affiliated club for at least three years before their 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21)’.

The thinking behind that ruling is to improve the talent pool for England’s national team as clubs are required to select a specified percentage of homegrown players in their squads.

What are the requirements around homegrown player quotas?

In the Premier League, clubs are required to submit a squad list of no more than 25 players, with 17 the maximum permissible number of non-homegrown players. A full squad will contain at least eight who qualify as homegrown under the competition’s criteria.

It is possible that clubs with fewer than eight homegrown senior players will decline (or be unable to) name a full 25-player squad if they reach their threshold of 17 non-homegrown members.


What constitutes an ‘under-21 player’ in terms of the homegrown quota rules?

For the 2024/25 Premier League season, any player born on 1 January 2003 or later qualifies as under-21. There isn’t any limit on how many such players can be included in a club’s top-flight squad, so even if they have a non-UK nationality, they aren’t counted towards the non-homegrown quota.

Can non-English players now older than 21 qualify as homegrown?

The simple answer is yes. Regardless of nationality, a player can qualify as homegrown if they’ve featured for a club affiliated to the FA for at least three years before their 21st birthday.

Using Liverpool as an example, Caoimhin Kelleher can be classified as homegrown despite being 25 and a full Republic of Ireland international. He meets the Premier League’s criteria as he first came to Merseyside when he was 16 and has been with the club ever since.


With all that taken into account, where do Liverpool currently stand with their homegrown quotas?

Liverpool currently have 14 of their 17 permissible non-homegrown Premier League squad berths filled, with the summer exits of Adrian, Thiago Alcantara and Joel Matip freeing up three slots:


That leaves room for three more overseas players to be brought in this month, but that’s on the premise that Arne Slot selects no more than eight homegrown players aged 21 or older.

At present, he has 14 from which to choose and can include 11 if he wishes. It’s worth noting that this list contains a few names who’ll already be aware that they have no discernible first-team future at Anfield:


There are several players still 21 or under who are in or around the Liverpool first-team squad, such as Jarell Quansah, Conor Bradley, Stefan Bajcetic, Harvey Elliott, Bobby Clark and Ben Doak. They can be used in the Premier League without taking up a place on the 25-player list that Liverpool must submit.

Do the homegrown critera differ between the Premier League and Champions League?

Yes, there are some slight yet crucial differences in homegrown eligibility criteria between the two competitions.

Similar to the Premier League, UEFA requires clubs to reserve a minimum of eight squad berths for ‘locally trained’ players, with this category divided into two.

Four must be club-trained (i.e. someone ‘who, between the age of 15 and 21, irrespective of nationality and age, has been registered with his current club for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons’).


Four more can be association-trained (i.e. someone ‘who, between the age of 15 and 21, has been registered with a club or other clubs affiliated to the relevant national championship for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons’.)

Clubs can also submit a ‘List B’ of players 21 or younger as of 1 January 2003 who’ve either been eligible to play for them for a two-year uninterrupted period or three consecutive years with a maximum one-year loan to a club from the same country.

Liverpool, Elliott, Slot, Jones
Harvey Elliott still qualifies as an under-21 player for both the Premier League and Champions League (Photo by Justin Berl/Getty Images)

Taking that into consideration, where does that leave Liverpool’s Champions League squad in terms of homegrown quota requirements?

Liverpool can easily meet their complement of four club-trained players for UEFA competitions: Kelleher, Joe Gomez, Trent Alexander-Arnold, Curtis Jones and Tyler Morton all meet the criteria.

The Reds can also name four association-trained players right now in Nat Phillips, Fabio Carvalho, Marcelo Pitaluga and Sepp van den Berg.

If all of those are included along with the 14 non-homegrown squad members, it still leaves room for two more ‘foreign’ players to be brought in. Should any of the above names depart or be omitted, that allows for three overseas signings to be added.

Among those who qualify for ‘List B’ are Quansah, Bradley, Bajcetic, Elliott, Clark and Doak. The latter’s inclusion in that category is significant, as 12 months ago he couldn’t fill an under-21 berth because he hadn’t been at Anfield for long enough, but now he’s eligible for ‘List B’ having been on our books for two years.

Now that we understand the nuances surrounding homegrown criteria for the Premier League and Champions League, how could the various rules affect Liverpool’s transfer business?

Let’s look at some Liverpool-linked players and assess where they fall in with the various homegrown criteria:

Anthony Gordon

PL: Would count towards the homegrown quota, allowing for three ‘foreign’ additions over the age of 21

CL: Would count as an association-trained player

Aside from his obvious ability, another reason why Gordon may appeal to Liverpool is his homegrown status as an England international.

If the Reds were to sign the 23-year-old, he’d take priority over the likes of Phillips and Pitaluga for an association-trained berth.

Julio Soler

PL: Would qualify as an under-21 player (still only 19)

CL: Would have to be registered as a non-homegrown player despite being born after January 2003, due to having insufficient prior involvement in English football

The Argentine defender would take a non-homegrown Champions League berth if signed, but if he were to join Liverpool this summer, he’d qualify as an under-21 player for three Premier League seasons.

Pedro Neto

PL: The 24-year-old Portugal winger would be classed as a non-homegrown player.

CL: Same as above.

Despite being with Wolves since 2019, Neto doesn’t meet the homegrown criteria for either the Premier League or Champions League. That’s because, at the time of his 21st birthday, he was only in his second season at Molineux and therefore doesn’t qualify as homegrown or association-trained.

Joachim Andersen

PL: The 28-year-old Danish defender would be classed as a non-homegrown player.

CL: Same as above.

Although Andersen has been with Crystal Palace for three years (and was on loan at Fulham before that), he didn’t come to England until he was 24, therefore missing the threshold for classification as homegrown in the Premier League or association-trained for UEFA competitions.

Giorgi Mamardashvili

PL: The 23-year-old Georgia goalkeeper would be classed as a non-homegrown player.

CL: Same as above.

Willian Pacho

PL: The 22-year-old Ecuadorian would be classed as a non-homegrown player.

CL: Same as above.

As it stands, Liverpool could sign any three of the last four names on that list, plus Gordon and Soler, while still falling within the Premier League’s homegrown criteria.

That would require six of the current squad aged 21 or over to be culled, but with several of that list very much on the fringes at Anfield, their inclusions would be surprising even if the squad was being named today.

Slot could also sign three ‘foreign’ players plus Gordon for the Reds’ Champions League roster. In that event, either Phillips or Pitaluga would likely be omitted from the list, if they’re still at the club by then.

On that note, there’s several names currently at Liverpool who could well move on before the end of the month. The likes of Billy Koumetio, Rhys Williams, Owen Beck, Phillips and Pitaluga may all be deemed surplus to requirements, while others such as Morton and Van den Berg might depart on loan.

That would give Liverpool even more leeway in terms of signing players while still conforming to homegrown eligibility criteria, and they’ve a lot more wriggle room on that front now than they did 12 months ago due to Adrian, Thiago and Matip moving on.

[Exiled_red]

The Reds can also name four association-trained players right now in Nat Phillips, Fabio Carvalho, Marcelo Pitaluga and Sepp van den Berg.

Surely Pitaluga and van den Berg also count as club trained? As they have been registered at LFC the whole time they have been in England (they have been out on loan but that doesn't change things). The 8 HG slots include 4 that have to be club trained but there is no reason why you couldn't fill all 8 HG slots with club trained players if you have them...


In terms of signings we have the flexibility in the squad to sign HG or non-HG players so we should just be looking for the best player for the position(s) we need not taking anything else into account.

[SB]

Still 3 spots available to overseas players I see. Hopefully we can fill 1 or at least 2 of them soon. The OS keeper we’re supposed to be looking at won’t affect this if he’s loaned out. While it’s good to have some wiggle room with regards to OS players it’s time to start wiggling.