I'm going to say it...

[Craig_H]

We haven't seen the latter stage of Benitez's tenure yet (hopefully), everyone had high hopes after houllier's first 2-3 seasons and it all went pear shaped there is a possibility it could just happen all over again

I cant speak for anyone else, but for me, Rafa just comes across as being on a higher level than Houllier was.

As i say, with Benitez, i've seen enough to persuade me that if he's given the necessary tools and enough patience, he'll deliver. I almost see him as being too good not to.

I cant say i was ever convinced of the same, with GH.

To put it bluntly, if it does go pear shaped for Rafa, i think it'll be down to the limitations he'll have had to have worked with, rather than limitations in his managerial ability.

[Shaggy]

I cant speak for anyone else, but for me, Rafa just comes across as being on a higher level than Houllier was.

As i say, with Benitez, i've seen enough to persuade me that if he's given the necessary tools and enough patience, he'll deliver. I almost see him as being too good not to.

I cant say i was ever convinced of the same, with GH.

To put it bluntly, if it does go pear shaped for Rafa, i think it'll be down to the limitations he'll have had to have worked with, rather than limitations in his managerial ability.

Totally agree.

I've heard it said there are lots of 'frightening similarities' between Ged and Rafa. I can see why people think that, but I don't agree.

Benitez has a clear vision of what he wants to do and how he wants to do it. He won't waver from that. He has total belief in his footballing philosophies and principles, and he should be applauded for that whether you agree with them or not.

Houllier, however, changed with the wind and in the latter stages of his reign almost seemed like a blagger. Firstly he was all 'two banks of four', negative and cautious, playing entirely counter-attacking football - and often direct.

Then all of a sudden he wants us playing expansive, flowing football. As we're all too painfully aware, that particular plan backfired and all too quickly he reverted to his defensive, boring ways.

Benitez would never piss about like that and you sense he is totally in control of everything he's doing. Houllier never gave that impression.

People see this as Rafa being stubborn, and because we all know Ged was stubborn insofar as keeping faith with his purchases simply HOPING they would come good, parallels are drawn. It's missing the point, IMO.

Rafa is the opposite of Houllier in that department - quickly realising his mistakes and moving the misfits on. It's all a part of his vision and if it's clear they're not going to help us move forward, off they go. Houllier's blind faith in flops tied in with his haphazard principles.

I'm not a Houllier hater but it's clear Benitez is the superior manager.

Keep the faith.

[marcgerard]

Houllier before his heart problems was a very good manager, he just came back too soon.

Rafa however, I think, is a class above Ged. He inherited a weak squad and has had his hands tied over transfers, even so he has been good at giving players an opportunity to prove themselves but quietly ruthless about getting rid of those he does nt believe to be of the required standard.

This is nt to say he has nt made mistakes both in the transfer market or with selection or tactics, because clearly he has. Both Ged and Rafa had great success in the cup competitions and amassed alot of points in one season only to see the following season peter out; just how good Rafa is will be shown by the way he gets the most out of this season and gives us a platform for next.

Ultimately, it was Ged's inability to take the team on which blighted his last two seasons. If Rafa fails to take us on next season questions will need to be asked, presently though given what he has done in the last few years, and the state of the squad he inherited and the limited means he has had to improve it I think if anything he has over achieved.

[Shaggy]

Houllier before his heart problems was a very good manager, he just came back too soon.

Rafa however, I think, is a class above Ged. He inherited a weak squad and has had his hands tied over transfers, even so he has been good at giving players an opportunity to prove themselves but quietly ruthless about getting rid of those he does nt believe to be of the required standard.

This is nt to say he has nt made mistakes both in the transfer market or with selection or tactics, because clearly he has. Both Ged and Rafa had great success in the cup competitions and amassed alot of points in one season only to see the following season peter out; just how good Rafa is will be shown by the way he gets the most out of this season and gives us a platform for next.

Ultimately, it was Ged's inability to take the team on which blighted his last two seasons. If Rafa fails to take us on next season questions will need to be asked, presently though given what he has done in the last few years, and the state of the squad he inherited and the limited means he has had to improve it I think if anything he has over achieved.

[marcgerard]

back to you!

[Morph]

I've a feeling come January when we're sitting third, all of these conversations will have died out and all the focus will be on the cups and champs league.

Would anyone really complain if we walked away with a cup double this season?

[Shaggy]

Would anyone really complain if we walked away with a cup double this season?

Not at all mate but in all honesty, the way we're playing at the moment we've got bugger all chance of winning either the FA or European Cup.

[Morph]

Not at all mate but in all honesty, the way we're playing at the moment we've got bugger all chance of winning either the FA or European Cup.

I like to be surprised, how about a cup treble, then people really would be comparing Rafa to Houllier.

[Diego]

BENITEZ OUT!


Call me rash or whatever, but we deserve a manager who can give us a shot at the league. Benitez hasn't got a clue in that repsect. I've got my tin hat ready, but i'd like the decent posters to answer me why he should STILL be manager.



Thanks for the memories Rafa, but no thanks.

christ all mighty, thats what the said to ferguson after his first couple of seasons, we need to be patient, we wont win the league i the next 3 years if we change the manager unless we get investment...

we aint got the money, and we and got a good enough side to win it yet lets just pe patient...

[CharlieMansonsSquint]

Ok let me try and find some reasons:
1. Less than 2 years since we won the Champions League
2. Current FA Cup Holders
3. Have dropped 8 league points at Anfield out of our last 72
4. Thanks to his recruitment drive we won the FA youth cup for the first time in 10 years
5. We achieved 82 points in the league last season; since the league went back to 20 teams; that would have equalled or won the league in 95/96; 97/98; 98/99 and 2000/2001
6. He's been here less than 2 1/2 seasons and either won or made it to the final of every cup competition we have entered
7. This has been our best ever start to the Champions League
8. I read somewhere that he has spent the net amount of £25 million on players since his arrival; compare that to Chelsea (£275 million - or an average of £12.5m per player in a 22 man squad) or the scum (Rooney - £30m; Ferdinand - £30m; Ronaldo - £15m; Carrick - £18m; Saha - £12m); or even Arsenal where there is always talk about how well Arsene has done on a limited budget, but whenever he has wanted an expensive player - Henry; Pires; Walcott; Reyes; Hleb; Rosicky and the rest - his board have backed him
9. He knows we can't compete in the market, so he has put together a collection of probably the most talented youngsters in the league with a view to the future
10.Rafa doesn't complain about lack of funds, but it is killing us.

At the moment I agree that he can't lead us to the title; but I don't think there is anyone around who can.

You say we deserve a manager who can give us a shot at the league; I say we have one, but we deserve a board that can give him the means to make it happen.

Would rate you 5 if I could.

[Red Chilli]

Not at all mate but in all honesty, the way we're playing at the moment we've got bugger all chance of winning either the FA or European Cup.

We've got FA chance

[marcgerard]

Seriously, in any given cup game I think we can take any team given a home leg or tie, with the exception of the Arsenal game in a few weeks time we also have quite a bit more time to improve our form.

[Red Chilli]

Seriously, in any given cup game I think we can take any team given a home leg or tie, with the exception of the Arsenal game in a few weeks time we also have quite a bit more time to improve our form.

Equally it appears this season that we are vulnerable to defeat from any team at any one time.

[marcgerard]

Equally it appears this season that we are vulnerable to defeat from any team at any one time.

Away from home certainly.

[alunevans]

We should have got O'Neill in the summer, no doubt about that. Who should we get instead? Not sure, he'll be better than Rafa though.

So you feel he should have been sacked in the summer??? On what basis.