Mentality

[Craig_H]

embarrasing? me? how do you work that out? I have given rationale behind my reasons for optimism whether they prove to be right or not. You on th other hand just spout of ngativity with no substance. When you ar then challenged, e.g. punching above our weight, you deny that is what you meant. If you wish to insult me then fine give some good adult reasons. If you are the same DJS as Dunks little toy then you always have been an irritant so nothing changs. But if you wish to b an irritant at least back your drones with some real substance eh? Otherwise people think you are just a **** and I am sure you are not really

Firstly, you mentioned 'moaning' and 'whinging' - neither of which i've done.

Secondly, regarding the 'punching above our weight' comment, i was referring to the final points tally of last season, which is about as many as we've ever amassed in a Premiership season. Argue against that if you can.

I post based on reality and i try to see things as they are, rather than how i want them to be. I agree we're improving and i agree the future is indeed bright, i've never said otherwise. Regarding this season, i dont doubt we'll have a good campaign, but i dont think we'll win the title. Get over it.

[nbryan1764]

Firstly, you mentioned 'moaning' and 'whinging' - neither of which i've done.

Secondly, regarding the 'punching above our weight' comment, i was referring to the final points tally of last season, which is about as many as we've ever amassed in a Premiership season. Argue against that if you can.

I post based on reality and i try to see things as they are, rather than how i want them to be. I agree we're improving and i agree the future is indeed bright, i've never said otherwise. Regarding this season, i dont doubt we'll have a good campaign, but i dont think we'll win the title. Get over it.

Using that rationale then once we win the league then we cannot win it again because we will have got more points than before? And we would not win it because we were the best team but because we had overachieved? I am not arguing that we got more points than before in the Premiership because it is a fact? But could it not be because we had (and have) a better team than we have had for a long time?

[willa1975]

I do think it's significant that Chelsea, and a number of the United players know what it's like to be at the top of the food chain. Besides that, I think there are a few other important differences.

One advantage United has over us is continuity. They've only had one new face (two if you count Vidic) to work into their lineup, and they've had the same manager for 20 years.

Also, I think their starting lineup is a little better than ours--I'd take Rooney and Saha over Bellamy and Kuyt, I'd take Giggs and Ronaldo over Pennant and Gonzo, and I'd take Heinze over Riise at left back. I think we're just as good as them, if not a little better, at CB and RB, and I'd take Gerrard/Alonso/Sissoko over Scholes/Carrick/Fletcher. However, we definitely have the advantage in terms of depth.

In terms of world-class players, we have one in Gerrard, whereas United haven't got any if you ask me. Giggs was at one point, but not anymore although he remains a very good player. Rooney doesn't score enough goals to be world-class in my book. And Ronaldo's got world-class skill, but doesn't do enough with the ball in the final third to be a world-class player. Ferdinand is close on his day, but not quite.

Comparing us to Chelsea, the difference is talent. Ballack and Shevchenko may not be settling in as well as they'd hoped for but, at the end of the day, they've still got Ballack and Shevchenko on the pitch and opposing teams need to account for them. Also, Chelsea started this season with a team that was good enough to win the league at a canter two seasons running. And don't forget that Drogba is having the season of his life.

I also have to mention money--Chelsea have virtually unlimited financial resources and, while Man United aren't quite in that category, they are still able to come up with the money when there's a player they want. For example, there's no doubt in my mind that, if Mourinho or Ferguson were after Alves this summer, he would be playing for United or Chelsea right now. You can say all you want about paying over the odds for a player but, if you can afford it and the player gives you what you were looking for, it's worth it if you ask me. Hopefully, we'll secure the investment we've been hoping for and not have to settle for second or third-choice signings anymore because of money.

[Craig_H]

Using that rationale then once we win the league then we cannot win it again because we will have got more points than before? And we would not win it because we were the best team but because we had overachieved? I am not arguing that we got more points than before in the Premiership because it is a fact? But could it not be because we had (and have) a better team than we have had for a long time?

That depends on if you think we've now got the best team we've had in the last 17 years. I'd dispute that.

[nbryan1764]

That depends on if you think we've now got the best team we've had in the last 17 years. I'd dispute that.

and that is your right to do so. It does not mean you are right though. And when you say team are you talking about the TEAM...i.e. the Management, backroom staff etc? Because when I think about the whole outfit, then yes I would say it is the best team in 17 years.

[Craig_H]

Whether i'm right or not, it doesnt amount to 'whinging' or 'moaning', which was a bizarre pair of words to use.

[El Jefecito]

Whether i'm right or not, it doesnt amount to 'whinging' or 'moaning', which was a bizarre pair of words to use.

Ton up, eh DJ

[Craig_H]

Hello Speedy. I have no idea what you're on about, but i hope you're having a pleasant evening.

[El Jefecito]

Hello Speedy. I have no idea what you're on about, but i hope you're having a pleasant evening.

Spiffing in fact.

[Craig_H]

Good man.

[nbryan1764]

Whether i'm right or not, it doesnt amount to 'whinging' or 'moaning', which was a bizarre pair of words to use.

bizarre? I don't think so. I read your posts and they are negative. In my life when I have met negativ people they moan and whinge. So if you aren't a moaner or whinger then I am sorry for misunderstanding you so badly. It does not stop your posts from being so bloody negative though. They are better than us...they have got him and he is better than him that we have got blah blah blah Come on Sidderney, Scholes is debatedly world class but Alonso is not? Good god man show some support for what we have and not for what we have not. Anyway on that note, unless you have got something or rel substance to discuss then I won;t answer your futile responses I am now officially bored.

Hang on...NO Syd...Put that razor down its not that bad we have got Watford next week...you know Watford!!! We can win again I promise

[Craig_H]

You're cringeworthy mate.

[Morph]

I had a feeling this thread was going to grow legs

[Red_Polo]

You're cringeworthy mate.

Well thought out response, you argue a fine case

Man Utd and Chelsea are better than us in one big way, they have better/more flair players capable of consistantly making something out of nothing. Lucky for us our style of play is not so dependant on it as either of theirs, but that lack of flair players is something we need to change IMO. It hurts us not having it against the bigger teams especially, and means our team play has to be spot on to beat them. That said we do have a squad capable of winning the league, and we certainly shouldn't think there is a massive gulf between us and them - there simply isn't.

[Guest]

Man Utd and Chelsea are better than us in one big way, they have better/more flair players capable of consistantly making something out of nothing.

I don't think this point is fair to be honest. Our attacking 6 of Kuyt, Bellers, Stevie, Alonso, Kewell / Gonzo, Pennant isn't very far off than Chelsea's and Manure's attacking 6. There's a fine line between success and failure and i've always stated that we lack character away from home, that's has been our downfall ... but it seems we're starting to correct that flaw.