Mentality

[The_weatherman]

Man Utd and Chelsea are better than us in one big way, they have better/more flair players capable of consistantly making something out of nothing.

I think Man Utd do have better attacking midfielders and that can be a huge difference. Scholes, Giggs and Ronaldo are extremely good and you can make a case about them all being world class, the two former definately were and I think they are crucial to his team. If they would lose these two to injury (god forbid) we would be looking at a different team altogether and I feel Giggs is more important than Rooney.

Then there is the movement of the team - I have always felt Ferguson gets this right better than most - the team moves on and off the ball better than most.

[AFII]

The difference between us and Man U and Chelsea is that they can afford to sign finished players and Rafa have so far needed to sign players that may be good enough. Man U and Chelsea can sign a player for £20m, we can't do that YET.

Rafa has so far not been able to afford to sign the best young players, Chelsea and Man U can do that.

That is one difference.

Most of Man U's starting XI have played together for many years, that's another difference. They know the system and our players is still learning Rafa's system.

[The_weatherman]

The difference between us and Man U and Chelsea is that they can afford to sign finished players and Rafa have so far needed to sign players that may be good enough. Man U and Chelsea can sign a player for £20m, we can't do that YET.

Rafa has so far not been able to afford to sign the best young players, Chelsea and Man U can do that.

That is one difference.

Most of Man U's starting XI have played together for many years, that's another difference. They know the system and our players is still learning Rafa's system.

Ferguson does not always buy the finished product or pay over the top. Of the team he has now only Carrick and Ferdiand can be said to be overpriced, Heinze was a good deal and Ronaldo is turning out to be worth it and then some and Rooney will be worth his price tag. Giggs, Scholes, Fletcher, Brown, Neville are freebies of course and Vidic was worth every penny, Van der Saar was cheap and Silvestre too. Ferguson has not spent that much.

Chelsea are another matter.

[AFII]

Ronaldo costed them £12m and he was overpriced at the time they signed him.

Rooney, £28m.

Ferdinand, £30m.

Carrick, £18m.

Saha, £12m.

Van Nistelrooy, £18m.


The point is that if you take away the golden generation players then they have spent very much money on quality players because they could afford to do that.

[Tee]

You cant copy that though, it's about the genuine mentality of the players and management.

United and Chelsea have a winning mentality. We dont. You cant copy it unfortunately, you have to instill it deeply into the hearts and minds of players.

Spot on.

We have to breed this mentality - some have it (Gerrard for example) and others do not.

[The_weatherman]

Ronaldo costed them £12m and he was overpriced at the time they signed him.

Rooney, £28m.

Ferdinand, £30m.

Carrick, £18m.

Saha, £12m.

Van Nistelrooy, £18m.

Nistelrooy delivered and was worth every penny, and he isn´t in this team anymore, Rooney will be world class and Ronaldo is now worth at least 15-20 million. I did say that Rio and Carrick were too expensive and Saha´s price is questionable but so is Heskey´s and Cisse´s and Diouf´s.

We have spent a lot on money on poor players. Instead of buying three Cheyrous, Ferguson is buying one quality player. And we have to have the golden generation in the context since we will want to have Gerrard, Owen and Carra. Plus Man Utd. did well in developing these players.

[Craig_H]

The difference between us and Man U and Chelsea is that they can afford to sign finished players and Rafa have so far needed to sign players that may be good enough. Man U and Chelsea can sign a player for £20m, we can't do that YET.

Rafa has so far not been able to afford to sign the best young players, Chelsea and Man U can do that.

That is one difference.

Most of Man U's starting XI have played together for many years, that's another difference. They know the system and our players is still learning Rafa's system.

Rafa's spent £80m mate, so he's had the money.

[El Jefecito]

Rafa's spent £80m mate, so he's had the money.

Rafa couldn't go after the finished article though as he had to build out the squad. 80m on 20 players is different than 80m on 5 players. Don't you agree?

[Craig_H]

Rafa couldn't go after the finished article though as he had to build out the squad. 80m on 20 players is different than 80m on 5 players. Don't you agree?

Yes, of course it's different.

But with that £80m, he could've bought a few more TOP players, and a few more cheaper backups. At least then we'd have the first XI sorted. He's built the squad before the first XI which i see as a bit odd. Maybe it's down to the rotation policy he uses.

I'll give you an example....£7m on Pennant, £6m on Bellamy, £3m on Gonzalez.

Wouldnt you rather have spent that money on ONE TOP PLAYER who will walk into the first team, week in, week out? I would.

[El Jefecito]

Yes, of course it's different.

But with that £80m, he could've bought a few more TOP players, and a few more cheaper backups. At least then we'd have the first XI sorted. He's built the squad before the first XI which i see as a bit odd. Maybe it's down to the rotation policy he uses.

Nope, it's down to long term planning and creating sustainable success. Makes perfect sense.

[paulcooper4]

Yes, of course it's different.

But with that £80m, he could've bought a few more TOP players, and a few more cheaper backups. At least then we'd have the first XI sorted. He's built the squad before the first XI which i see as a bit odd. Maybe it's down to the rotation policy he uses.

As long as he keeps winning trophies, improving the team and making my beloved reds play with a bit of style then hes alright with me

[Craig_H]

As long as he keeps winning trophies, improving the team and making my beloved reds play with a bit of style then hes alright with me

He's more than alright with me too paul, i hope it didnt come across as if he wasnt.

He does make mistakes like anyone else however, and i dont see it as being 'wrong' to point that out.

[paulcooper4]

Nope, it's down to long term planning and creating sustainable success. Makes perfect sense.

If that 80 million had been spent on shevchenko and 2 or 3 others, we would still have a **** squad, and probably salif diao attempting to play a through ball to him

Rafa is the best manager in the world in my opinion and i for one am extremely grateful that hes plying his trade at anfield

[Craig_H]

Nope, it's down to long term planning and creating sustainable success. Makes perfect sense.

We'll agree to disagree then.

I dont see how spending £7m on players like Pennant helps to 'create success' but there ya go...

[paulcooper4]

He's more than alright with me too paul, i hope it didnt come across as if he wasnt.

Sometimes does come across as though you have no time for him tbh fella, although I do on occasion read things wrong. Must be the glue

He does make mistakes like anyone else however, and i dont see it as being 'wrong' to point that out.

Course he makes mistakes, he is human, and still learning. Dont forget, brilliant as he is, hes still relatively young for a manager. I do however feel you are always a bit too quick to point out his mistakes though and not quite as vocal in your support of him to balnce it out a bit.