Jürgen Klopp

[Fredo]

I reckon hes an alpha male type who dominates these guys until they are **** scared of their own shadows.

[ame]https://twitter.com/Oliver__Bond/status/1027878884430237696[/ame]


“If you do not have the right word to say, just shut up.”

[Red_Polo]

Also, Chris talking about the football instead of other posters is always

[dom9]

Lots of utter nonsense being spoken.

Mignolet and Karius both struggled to adapt to playing for us from the get go, but eventually managed to put in a long spell of consistently decent performances before in Mignolet's case he reverted to his original struggles or in Karius' case a single game shattered him. It's plainly utter **** to suggest they have deteriorated under us or just failed to develop. They just weren't that great. It's a tough position to satisfactorily fill. Other big teams have had similar difficulties for long periods.

Achetberg might be amazing or ****e, I've no idea. But I do know that Klopp is spot on to lampoon all these whoppers going around so certain they know how rubbish he must be.

Yep

[Mark79]

Lots of utter nonsense being spoken.

Mignolet and Karius both struggled to adapt to playing for us from the get go, but eventually managed to put in a long spell of consistently decent performances before in Mignolet's case he reverted to his original struggles or in Karius' case a single game shattered him. It's plainly utter **** to suggest they have deteriorated under us or just failed to develop. They just weren't that great. It's a tough position to satisfactorily fill. Other big teams have had similar difficulties for long periods.

Achetberg might be amazing or ****e, I've no idea. But I do know that Klopp is spot on to lampoon all these whoppers going around so certain they know how rubbish he must be.

Lot of revisionism there. Mignolet actually started quite strongly in his first season. And it isn't 'utter ****' to suggest that him, Reina and Karius went backwards, when all 3 clearly did.

[BobTheCharmer]

Do you listen to The Anfield Wrap perchance?

No idea what this is. Some sort of podcast thing I assume.

[Red_Polo]

Lot of revisionism there. Mignolet actually started quite strongly in his first season.

We can all list a string of rubbish players who 'started quite strongly'. If in saying that you mean the start of his first season, like first month or two, yeah he probably did. If you actually mean his entire first season, then definitely not. Opinions on him were pretty mixed by not long into the new year in his first season. By the end of the season some were already calling for an alternative in a team. Lucky for him half the rest of the team were worse.

"Good shot stopper but poor distribution and no command of the area" was a common sort of thing to hear. The skillset that got him here wasn't going to keep him here, he had to adapt. Moving away from your natural game isn't easy and you can end up spending lots of time trying to do things you never used to. That might make you put in more error strewn performances, but that's not the same as actually being deskilled, it's stuff you never actually had in your locker to start with. That's what happened with Mignolet.

If you prefer to believe we coached ****ness into him be my guest.

And it isn't 'utter ****' to suggest that him, Reina and Karius went backwards, when all 3 clearly did.

Well if you read back I didn't actually say that about Reina. Mignolet I've covered. Karius started like ****e and had to be pulled out of the firing line. Before the final he'd put in half a season of encouraging displays. The trajectory you're portraying just isn't there with him. If anything he got much better then one game happened.

[red g]

The Sunderland fans i know were never sold on the Mig, Always thought he was a bit weak.

[Fosterbloke]

No idea what this is. Some sort of podcast thing I assume.

Yeah, they have a free and a paid version of the podcast with loads of content.

I really like it.

[Mark79]

We can all list a string of rubbish players who 'started quite strongly'. If in saying that you mean the start of his first season, like first month or two, yeah he probably did. If you actually mean his entire first season, then definitely not. Opinions on him were pretty mixed by not long into the new year in his first season. By the end of the season some were already calling for an alternative in a team. Lucky for him half the rest of the team were worse.

"Good shot stopper but poor distribution and no command of the area" was a common sort of thing to hear. The skillset that got him here wasn't going to keep him here, he had to adapt. Moving away from your natural game isn't easy and you can end up spending lots of time trying to do things you never used to. That might make you put in more error strewn performances, but that's not the same as actually being deskilled, it's stuff you never actually had in your locker to start with. That's what happened with Mignolet.

If you prefer to believe we coached ****ness into him be my guest.

Oh you’re being facetious. Very good.
No, I believe that bad coaching has a detrimental effect on performance.
This does not mean that I know for certain that JA is a bad coach.

Well if you read back I didn't actually say that about Reina. Mignolet I've covered. Karius started like ****e and had to be pulled out of the firing line. Before the final he'd put in half a season of encouraging displays. The trajectory you're portraying just isn't there with him. If anything he got much better then one game happened.

I don’t need to read back. I included Reina because you conveniently omitted him when you tried to argue that it’s the standard of the keepers that’s been the issue.

With Karius, the trajectory is there. His career didn’t start in 2016.

[SB]

I find this "ruined keepers" stuff and the general obsession with Achterberg on forums, social media etc bizarre. Can anyone point out how exactly he's ruined Simon Mignolet for example? We signed the lad as an average/decent/ok whatever you want to call it 25 year old and that's unsurprisingly pretty much what he's stayed as. I'd argue he's slightly improved his bravery, being willing to come for crosses game anyway but overall a 25 year old isn't going to change loads in the coming years for better or worse and that's what happened. Karius was also decent last season and looked improved from his first year, it ended in disaster but that doesn't change the rest of the games he played. Give Jack Butland to any goalie coach on the planet for 5 years and I'd be willing to bet in 5 years he'd be the same error prone, **** on the ball, scared to come off his line goalie he is now, I'm not sure it means the coach is ****, it's just what Jack Butland and his ability level is.

De Gea in the last however many years has had Frans Hoek, Eric Steele, Emilio Alvarez, Chris Woods and **** knows how many others coaching him, are these all brilliant at their job or is it just ya know he's pretty ****ing good in goal? Chris Woods was at West Ham in the last few years and their goalies were horrific, did he suddenly lose all coaching ability over night? Newcastle looked much better at the back from January, most of the credit for that dramatic change has gone to Dubravka the new keeper. Does that mean the goalie coach was doing a **** job from August to Dec 31st and a good one from Jan to May? Or did Rafa just find them a much better, more suitable goalie for the way they play?

It's a bit like the "Klopp can't set up a defence" stuff then we start playing a more suitable goalie, get a more reliable LB and sign one of the best centre backs in the world then suddenly we have one of our best goals conceded columns in many, many years. Did getting better players help produce that result or do we believe Klopp suddenly went to a defence coaching school in the summer of 2017 and that was resposible for the dramatic defensive improvement?

Yeah coaching can help obviously otherwise why hire them but I think that's for a few extra percent, keeping them sharp etc not totally changing a player from average to great. The expectation on Achterberg seems to have been to turn one of ours in to our De Gea, Cech, Courtois (whoever else we've had to watch excelling at a rival club in the last 5 years).

I'm not saying he's a great coach or anything either, I don't really know but I see little evidence of him ruining anyone and our biggest problem was sticking with average keepers for too long, much like we did with Skrtel at CB, Albie at LB etc. Is Klopp a dodgy coach because he couldn't improve Albie loads or Joe Allen or Benteke etc? The biggest question mark on him is what happened with Reina but even then that's clouded by all the **** we went through with Hicks, Gillett, Mike Kelly come in as well, then even when the new owners, Kenny, Rodgers etc come and we were building something it was still very much recovery mode, probably not the easiest situation for a player used to playing big CL games, and winning international honours, could easily just say he went stale/lost motivation.

Great post Chris. my only question is did you really write it ?

[RichC]

People forget the horror shows we saw now and again from Reina, he had errors in his game, take the 2007 FA cup final he was bloody awful but it’s forgotten about as we won the match (and FA Cup)

You believe bad coaching had a detrimental effect on his performance and yet don’t know if JA is a bad coach ? Sort of contradiction in terms as JA is the GK coach

[SB]

You’d assume Achterburg would be consulted in the purchase of any new goalkeeper & if that’s so, how has he kept his job, cause if he was a scout surely we’d have sacked him by now. And if he’s not consulted pre purchase he certainly has not improved any of our recent ( 8-10? )keepers that I can see

[Saveloy]

Also, Chris talking about the football instead of other posters is always

Definitely. Knows his stuff. Enjoys winding people up though and does go too far on occasion in trying to spear 'bad fans'.

Feedback is a gift Chris. I just want to see you develop and grow. You've got so much potential

[Red_Polo]

Oh you’re being facetious. Very good.
No, I believe that bad coaching has a detrimental effect on performance.
This does not mean that I know for certain that JA is a bad coach.

Remind me what part of my post you disagree with?!

I don’t need to read back. I included Reina because you conveniently omitted him when you tried to argue that it’s the standard of the keepers that’s been the issue.

I clearly made a point specifically about Mignolet and Karius, why should that imply anything at all about Reina? If you want to make a point about Reina, go for it! Arguing with me about him on the basis of something I never said about him is a bit odd though

With Karius, the trajectory is there. His career didn’t start in 2016.

Sure, but if you're trying to make a point about goalkeepers deteriorating during their time with us, it ought to be exactly that, not the moment they step walk through the door. Karius was **** for us then improved significantly for a reasonable spell until the final happened.

[Red_Polo]

Definitely. Knows his stuff. Enjoys winding people up though and does go too far on occasion in trying to spear 'bad fans'.

Feedback is a gift Chris. I just want to see you develop and grow. You've got so much potential

Long form Chris