So Who's Going To Win The Ashes?

[G_Man]

the old trafford pitch has changed GREATLY since the 1993 and 1997 ashes.

now its very fast and bouncy and its been a seamers pitch since the summer of 1999

Of course

[G_Man]

so is brisbane, melbourne and sydney - shaney boys got a fair few wickets there too...how many wickets did dawson get us there?

if he was any good, hed still be in the side

They are not classically turning wickets though, are they?

[enema of the state]

You're in a godd position to judge having seen Panesar in what less than half a dozen games and you can compare him to a player you can't even remember.

Whatever.

Your comment about getting good players out-how about Justin Langer? How about VVS Laxman? You think they can't play spin?

i was being flippant when i posted i couldnt remember dawson

its not just about getting em out its about getting em out before they make 250!!!!!

JL Langer c Caddick b Dawson 250 578 407 30 1
ML Hayden c Crawley b Caddick 102 189 149 10 3
RT Ponting b White 21 40 32 3 0
DR Martyn c Trescothick b White 17 38 30 3 0
*SR Waugh c Foster b White 77 159 117 15 0
ML Love not out 62 160 141 4 0
+AC Gilchrist b Dawson 1 9 6 0 0
Extras (lb 11, w 5, nb 5) 21
Total (6 wickets dec, 146 overs, 588 mins) 551

[G_Man]

i was being flippant when i posted i couldnt remember dawson

Convenient face-saver. You're STILL judging Monty on less than half a dozen Tests all in this country. Madness. For the record I think he is a better bowler but to say he's a different class to Dawson circa 2002 is nonsense.

its not just about getting em out its about getting em out before they make 250!!!!!

JL Langer c Caddick b Dawson 250 578 407 30 1
ML Hayden c Crawley b Caddick 102 189 149 10 3
RT Ponting b White 21 40 32 3 0
DR Martyn c Trescothick b White 17 38 30 3 0
*SR Waugh c Foster b White 77 159 117 15 0
ML Love not out 62 160 141 4 0
+AC Gilchrist b Dawson 1 9 6 0 0
Extras (lb 11, w 5, nb 5) 21
Total (6 wickets dec, 146 overs, 588 mins) 551

Right because he bowled at him for his entire innings.

[enema of the state]

They are not classically turning wickets though, are they?

sydney is probably the most pro spin wicket in england/oz if not the world

the aussies have played 2 spinners there in every test since the early 1980's

its consistntly the ground where they bring in mcGill

[G_Man]

sydney is probably the most pro spin wicket in england/oz if not the world

Seriously now.

I agree it spins more than other grounds in Australia but come on.

[enema of the state]

ok g-man

[email protected]

see if you can persuade him that dawson needs to be brought back ahead of monty

get those white rose petals out of your eyes

[enema of the state]

Seriously now.

I agree it spins more than other grounds in Australia but come on.

deadly serious as i was about the OT track. its a fast bowlers pitch these days

[dww]

I think he claimed that the 2002 form of Dawson would justify comparison. he even admited that he thought Panesar was a better player.

From what i have seen of Panesar (not a lot obviously, but I did see him live in the Lords test) he responds immensly to the crowd. In Australia the crowd will not be so pro him and he will have to learn to find that little bit extra on his own. I think the Ashes will make or break his prospects of becoming a genuine great for England.

[G_Man]

You're not reading/comprehending my posts so I'll say it once more and then I'll leave this nonsense discussion.

Panesar- TOTALLY unproven, too early to judge, needs more games at first class let alone Tests.
Dawson- the best spinner in county cricket in 2001/2 took 4 wickets on Test debut against the Indians. Has lost his way since he started to bowl flatter.

You- judging a player who's hardly played first class cricket let alone Test match cricket against a player you couldn't remember and saying he's a different class.

At no point have i said Dawson should be recalled, I actually said his career has gone "Ian Salisbury" since he started to bowl flatter.

[enema of the state]

[QUOTE=dww]I think he claimed that the 2002 form of Dawson would justify comparison. he even admited that he thought Panesar was a better player..[/QUOTE

mmmm okay

From what i have seen of Panesar (not a lot obviously, but I did see him live in the Lords test) he responds immensly to the crowd. In Australia the crowd will not be so pro him and he will have to learn to find that little bit extra on his own. I think the Ashes will make or break his prospects of becoming a genuine great for England.

i disagree

monty bowls in a trance like state. he fielded right in front of me at ot and NEVER interacted with a seriously rowdy crowd. thats part of the reason why i think hell have the mental strength to blot out the aussie larakins and do some damage.

[dww]

I hope you are right.

[enema of the state]

DAWSON

class mat balls runs wkts bbi bbm ave econ sr 4 5 10
Tests 7 1116 677 11 4/134 4/134 61.54 3.63 101.45 1 0 0


Tests 9 2228 934 31 5/72 8/93 30.12 2.51 71.87 0 2 0

Panesar

thats 3 full series G man including india away!

Unproven???? if you like

these facts plus my subjective judgement leads me to the OPINION that panesar is different class

come on monty!!

[Shaggy]

They won their first game at home in 4 years last week

I know...unreal huh? It'd be depressing if I gave a ****!

[Ryan]

I'm going to them in Melbourne. Hope you're all jealous.

C'MON THE AUSSIES!!!