Amir Khan to fight......

[Shaggy]

Okay so they're the negatives, which are all I hear about. What about his strengths?

To my novicey eye, he seems to have improved his power and of course he has ****ing fast hands.

I have no idea who he'd have to beat to become, say, undisputed champion - I don't follow it to such an extent - but he looks pretty handy to me and I'd hate see his talent flogged and consequently wasted by Warren.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Okay so they're the negatives, which are all I hear about. What about his strengths?

To my novicey eye, he seems to have improved his power and of course he has ****ing fast hands.

I have no idea who he'd have to beat to become, say, undisputed champion - I don't follow it to such an extent - but he looks pretty handy to me and I'd hate see his talent flogged and consequently wasted by Warren.

His speed is a huge asset, but we have no idea as to how good his chin is, or to how durable his body is, and even less idea how his heart would be in a real nip and tuck fight.


After 13 fights, I would have hoped that some of the questions about he would be answered, or at the very least, have something on which to base how good he can go to be, other than fights against total stiffs, which would make his already impressive speed look even faster. I am beginning to think Hamed without the firepower is a good describtion for the kid.

He will end up with a title belt, of that I have no doubt, Warren will ensure that happens.

[Shaggy]

Interesting. I'll be keen to hear what the other lads have to say.

Of course I totally agree with what you say about the lack of questions that have been asked of him - which makes it tricky to assess how good he is. It's very dissatisfying watching him come up against a stream of absolute ****ing bums who won't even throw a punch, and if a casual boxing fan like me can see that, surely Warren can?

Actually I'm sure he can, but he most probably doesn't give a **** in his relentless and shameless pursuit of untold riches. :whatever:

[Tee]

He is only 20 years old. A baby in terms of boxing.

He has a huge heart, of that I have absolutely no doubt - remember the fight v Kindelan (when he was 17!! 17 FFS!!) and the recent slug v the French fighter Rachid Drilzane.

His chin is left open at times but that is his style - Lennox Lewis got caught but he was still a great champion. Tyson got floored, Ali got floored, so that is not such a big deal IMO. Makes his fights more exciting.

The main thing about Amir Khan is his incredible hand speed. If he can build up some real power with that speed he will go a very long way.

It is the British way it seems to build someone up to knock them down, but I believe as long as he has the hunger he will be World Champ.

[Doc_Piptorious]

He is only 20 years old. A baby in terms of boxing.

He has a huge heart, of that I have absolutely no doubt - remember the fight v Kindelan (when he was 17!! 17 FFS!!) and the recent slug v the French fighter Rachid Drilzane.

His chin is left open at times but that is his style - Lennox Lewis got caught but he was still a great champion. Tyson got floored, Ali got floored, so that is not such a big deal IMO. Makes his fights more exciting.

The main thing about Amir Khan is his incredible hand speed. If he can build up some real power with that speed he will go a very long way.

It is the British way it seems to build someone up to knock them down, but I believe as long as he has the hunger he will be World Champ.

There is a huge difference between taken punches in the paid ranks and the unpaid ranks. If there was not, then every good puncher and every top amateur would make for a good pro, but that is not the case, not even close.

I think he has some of the tools to be a very good fighter, but he runs the risk of being spoiled, as many of Warren's fighters have been, by a string of poor opponents at a crucial stage of his development. The simple fact is he should have stepped up the level of quality that he has been facing by now. The fact that has not happened, only shows that Warren is lining the nest again, and will milk the kid for all that he is worth. Rachid Drilzane is a poor example to use as he is already known for being light handed and lacking dramatically in punching power. He has 0 knockdowns for him, let alone a stoppage in 15 fights, and a similar record when he was in the unpaid ranks. Now if you want to expand on that and take Khan's last five opponents careers into consideration with regards to punching power, the they are a total of 11 stoppages in 98 fights, barely an egg breaker amongst them.



You give a list of fighters that got floored, true some fighters can be defined by a knock down and how they respond to it, others can be ruined mentally by it. You use Tyson as an example of being knocked down, well in every fight in his career that he got floored in, he lost. From a boxers and a trainers point of view, getting knocked down does not make for a more exciting fight, quite the opposite in fact. It means you are doing something wrong, a fighter who gets knocked a lot is easy to hit, get miles on the clock quicker and eventually meets punchers that he will not rise up against once hit.


I rate one fighter from the UK as World Class at the moment, and rate only one fighter from Ireland and the UK as potentially world class from the current crop of 17 to 23 year olds.



The one world class fighter, imho, is Calzaghe, but his lack of quality opponents will cost him his title if he is not careful.


The potential world class fighter is Andy Lee. I have seen him develop for about 5 years until Emmanuel Steward spotted him, and now he fighting under the Kronk banner in Detroit.

The same Emmanuel Steward who cast an eye over Khan, and turned him down as a potential Kronk fighter when Khan was offered to him.


If Khan was being touted as what he is, looking to have good potential, then his many flaws would be totally understandable at this stage, but he is not being touted as having good potential, we are being told that he is a future all time great, that he has shown enough for people to think he could be one of the best ever. That is total balls imo, he has never shown that kind of form so far, I would love the kid to suddenly develop the kind of form that is being spouted about him, but he will not. Any of the greats were showing a lot more at his stage in his career than he is now.

Potential world champion in time? Without doubt. Potential all time great. Plenty of doubt and scepticism.

[Tee]

Thats your opinion, fair enough.

Just remember how young he is. Most amateurs turn pro much later on and we have seen how difficult it can be - e.g. Fraudley.

I think you are being too harsh on him but you are clearly knowledgeable so I have to respect what you say on the subject, though I do not agree on some points.

I need to find out more about this fighter Andy Lee. What weight division is he?

BTW I think Manny Steward would take Khan on now at the drop of a hat.

[Fiddy]

Time is on his side, yes. But the quality of the fighters he is meeting has stopped climbing at the rate it should be at this stage of his career. As Hollow pointed out about De La Hoya, not every fighter can be going for a title this early, although De La Hoya was a far far superior fighter by his 13th fight than Khan is.


Warren tends to drip feed his fighters, and weens them on sub standard opposition, whilst trying to con the public into thinking they were genuine threats.

Frank Warren should be nicknamed 'Durex' IMO

[Howard_lfc]

I'll give my opinion on Khan once somebody has smacked him on the jaw.

He obviously has talent - but can he fight?

[Doc_Piptorious]

[QUOTE=looprevil;406550]Thats your opinion, fair enough.

Just remember how young he is. Most amateurs turn pro much later on and we have seen how difficult it can be - e.g. Fraudley.

I think you are being too harsh on him but you are clearly knowledgeable so I have to respect what you say on the subject, though I do not agree on some points.

I need to find out more about this fighter Andy Lee. What weight division is he?

BTW I think Manny Steward would take Khan on now at the drop of a hat.[/QUOTE]






Nope, thinks he is very overrated. I can say that with confidence.


Andy is a middleweight, best young fighter I ever worked with, bar none.


I would love to be proven wrong on Khan, and see him on the pound for pound lists in a few years, he has ability, but I fear for his development under Warren. I just don't see in him what Hamed had at the same age.

I think expectation is far too high on Khan, that places a lot of pressure on the lad mentally also. His handlers were far too quick to give him the title of future all time great, and that was before his first pro fight. The hype machine went into action too fast, with the sole purpose of making money off of him from the word go.

I think if he had a different manager from the start, someone with a less commercial take than Warren, and had a steeper learning curve up to this point, then his footwork and defense would be far superior to what it is now. You point out that he is young again, yes he is, but he has also been boxing steadily at a competitive level for nine years.


Still, I hope that in a couple of years you will be going "I told you so" to me on here, as it will mean there is another genuine world class British fighter sitting on top of the pile.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I'll give my opinion on Khan once somebody has smacked him on the jaw.

He obviously has talent - but can he fight?

[kurtangle01]

The current world lightweight champions are.

IBF
Julio Diaz

WBA
Juan Diaz

WBC
David Diaz

WBO
Acelino Freitas

Amir Khan talks about being a world champion by the time he's 21. Good luck that's all I can say because all of those guys would have his number especially Freitas or Juan Diaz. Both of those guys are fighting in a unification match this month so 2 titles will be held by one fighter. And the loser will probably challenge one of the other champions within 2-3 fights so Khan is way down the list.

His next fight is against a bum in Willie Limmond and it's a fight I have no doubt that Khan will win. What I do find interesting though is that he's bypassed the british champion and gone straight for the commonwealth title. I wonder why that was, eh? Jonathon Thaxton would have him for breakfast that's why. John Murray would also give Khan alot of problems and I'm certain that Warren and Khan know this. Khan made comments about how he sparred with Murray and beat him up yet both fighters have never even met, never mind sparred. That's just Khan trying to make himself sound better than he is without stepping up for the fight.

Khan has alot of speed, he's no Floyd Mayweather or "Sugar" Ray but he has speed. He appears faster than he is because he's fighting stiffs. Against better fighters his speed becomes less of an advantage.

I'm not sure about his power yet because he's not been in with anyone that has a good chin. A good example of it though was how hard he struggled to a points win over that French guy he fought last year. It never served him well in that fight.

We don't know about his chin either because it's never been tested. It'll have to be though if he has to mix it up with the best in this division because they can all bang a bit.

Before he even thinks about fighting one of the champions at this weight he'll have to fight someone like Casamayor etc... I seriosuly doubt he'll ever get that far.

He'll end up fighting in packed arenas here against average fighters and he will be rammed down the publics throats as the "next big thing in boxing"

It's a shame really because with the right guidance and management he could have been brought up the proper way in boxing. With Frank Warren in charge though he has no chance. His best bet would be to follow Ricky Hattons lead and ditch Warren ASAP.

[kurtangle01]

Interesting. I'll be keen to hear what the other lads have to say.

Of course I totally agree with what you say about the lack of questions that have been asked of him - which makes it tricky to assess how good he is. It's very dissatisfying watching him come up against a stream of absolute ****ing bums who won't even throw a punch, and if a casual boxing fan like me can see that, surely Warren can?

Actually I'm sure he can, but he most probably doesn't give a **** in his relentless and shameless pursuit of untold riches. :whatever:

If the public buy it then Frank Warren will sell it. You know what I mean, shaggy? He's selling fights to the public as legitimate fights and they're lapping it up. You only have to look at the attendance for his last fight card to see that.

What did the paying public get though? 3 fights that lasted 7 rounds. 7 ****ing rounds!!!!

We were served up an absolute joke of a fight card. Calzaghe fought a reality TV star. Macarinelli made the second defense of his WBO belt against a guy rated at 115 in the world, a guy who had no more than 15 fights and started his career at Welterweight! Then Khan fought the un-retired Stephy Bull.

As long as the public think they're legitimate fights then Frank Warren will sell them as just that.

[Tee]

Agree with all the points about Warren, but I must admit I am amazed at the doubting of Amir Khans quality. Please can someone name a better 20 year old fighter anywhere around the world.

It is us, the British Public, who are pushing Khan forward at such a rate that we expect hime to fight for a World Title tomorrow.

Truth is he is not yet ready, and probably will not be for a few years yet, but by that time his marketing value will have plummeted (as did Fraudleys).

So, if you were his Manager what would you do? Frank Warren has to look after Khans future, so he is doing his job very well in that respect, but in terms of developing him as a boxer, maybe he is a hindrance.

Difficult situation, but aside from everything else I am genuinely surprised by the comments about Amir Khans ability.

[Doc_Piptorious]

His footwork is poor, especially for a fighter who has 13 pro fights under his belt and 7 years in the unpaid ranks. His power and duability are unknown, as is his heart. His defense needs serious work, and the opponents being chosen by his manager are questionable at best.


Better 20 year old fighters around at the moment?



Vanes Martirosyan, Light middle weight, 20, looks far more composed than he should be for his years, slick and punishing in the ring.


Jorge Paez Jr, Light Welter weight, 19, son of Jorge Paez, former world champion. Has a loss on his record, but is already fighting at higher level than Khan.


Just to name three.


Khan would be the best prospect his age in Britain but certainly not at world level.

Martirosyan is the one to watch imho from that list.

[Tee]

Vanes Martirosyan? His opponents are equally questionable and the most rounds he has boxed in a fight as a pro is 6.

His last 3 opponents:

Edgar Reyes - 10 wins and 7 defeats in 17 fights

Marcus Brooks - 6 wins and 3 defeats in 9 fights

Oscar Gonzalez - 9 wins, 7 defeats and 1 draw in 17 fights

Hardly an impressive list of opponents is it? Don't let the bright lights of Vegas dazzle your judgement. I would rate Khan higher than both the fighters you named.

I think we should agree to disagree on this one.