New Zealand v England Test series

[mersey86]

I suppose I think he's performing to his highest potential (and probably in the back of my mind there's an inability to think of anybody with the name "Sidebottom" being genuinely talented). I remember back to the Ashes series and think of Harmison, Hoggard, Flintoff, Jones as our best attack if fit. Harmison and Hoggard have been top quality international bowlers over a long period (injuries and poor form notwithstanding) and Monty is the best spinner we've had for a while (admittedly he's up against some pretty mediocre competition).

[Shaggy]

Aye fair comments mate.

Add the fact that Sidebottom for so long was a one-cap wonder/just another steady County player, then I agree he's been hard to warm to, in a sense.

I thought he'd be a stop-gap but he's done so well that he really deserves his place in the side.

I think he's down to bat at 8, which is the position I'd put Flintoff in at if/when he comes back.

[Slim]

Sidebottom has been superb for the last 12 - 18 months. He's probably been the pick of the seamers in that time with Harmison being wayward and Hoggy injured. James Anderson must be pissed off though as he seemed to be next in line for the fast bowling slots, but he blows hot and cold.

Where is Simon Jones these days? I thought he was on the way back from his serious injury but he seems to have dropped off the radar.

[Shaggy]

Jones got released by Glamorgan and, I think, signed for another County.

He's ruined, though. Never be the same player again.

[Matt]

Aye fair comments mate.

Add the fact that Sidebottom for so long was a one-cap wonder/just another steady County player, then I agree he's been hard to warm to, in a sense.

I thought he'd be a stop-gap but he's done so well that he really deserves his place in the side.

I think he's down to bat at 8, which is the position I'd put Flintoff in at if/when he comes back.

Flintoff is a number 7. If you have him at 8 and he's playing well the tail will get out before he does.

Sidebottom has been superb for the last 12 - 18 months. He's probably been the pick of the seamers in that time with Harmison being wayward and Hoggy injured. James Anderson must be pissed off though as he seemed to be next in line for the fast bowling slots, but he blows hot and cold.

Where is Simon Jones these days? I thought he was on the way back from his serious injury but he seems to have dropped off the radar.

Apart from his first couple of matches I dont think I've seen Jimmy Anderson bowl any warmer than tepid. An excellent one day bowler when he's on his game but he lost the ability to swing the ball and struggled badly in the Test side.

[Shaggy]

Flintoff is a number 7. If you have him at 8 and he's playing well the tail will get out before he does.

I know exactly what he is but he's displayed no form with the bat for such a long time that he should be treated as an out and out seamer, IMO, and coming in at number 8. Our batting is too shallow and the best teams bat down to 8 or 9. We have a load of number 11s propping up the tail.

He's done absolutely nothing with the bat for nigh on two years to warrant coming in at 6 or 7.

[Matt]

Strauss has done nothing with the bat for the last 18 months to warrant coming in at three either but he's still back in the side.

Flintoff being **** coincided with him captaining/carrying the team after the Ashes and when he returns he'll need plenty of time in the middle with specialist batsmen playing his natural game, not with the tail where he'd be blocking for 5 balls an over and then trying to hit a single.
Besides, if you want Flintoff at 8 you'd have to have a keeper in at 7 and neither Ambrose or Mustard are proven at Test level yet and it'll still be early to judge by the time Freddie comes back.

All in my opinion of course

[Shaggy]

Strauss has done nothing with the bat for the last 18 months to warrant coming in at three either but he's still back in the side.

But I'm advocating Flintoff being brought back into the side when fit, just like Strauss, and moved down the order, just like Strauss.

Flintoff being **** coincided with him captaining/carrying the team after the Ashes and when he returns he'll need plenty of time in the middle with specialist batsmen playing his natural game, not with the tail where he'd be blocking for 5 balls an over and then trying to hit a single.
Besides, if you want Flintoff at 8 you'd have to have a keeper in at 7 and neither Ambrose or Mustard are proven at Test level yet and it'll still be early to judge by the time Freddie comes back.

I think Flintoff's poor form with the bat goes back a bit further than that but I see what you're saying.

I just think he should, for the most part, concentrate on being a top class fast bowler. Let him come in at 8 and throw the bat about for a bit. I'd much rather him come in 8 and make a quickfire 30 or 40 than one of our number 11s coming in at 8, prodding and wafting for an hour before being sent back to the shed with 2 on the board.

[Matt]

But I'm advocating Flintoff being brought back into the side when fit, just like Strauss, and moved down the order, just like Strauss.

I would have thought that Strauss moving down to 3 was more of a tactical thing. Him and Cook are very pedestrian whereas Vaughan is in the Trescothick mould and plays more aggressively.

I think Flintoff's poor form with the bat goes back a bit further than that but I see what you're saying.

I just think he should, for the most part, concentrate on being a top class fast bowler. Let him come in at 8 and throw the bat about for a bit. I'd much rather him come in 8 and make a quickfire 30 or 40 than one of our number 11s coming in at 8, prodding and wafting for an hour before being sent back to the shed with 2 on the board.

Fair enough. I'm going to stand by my convictions though. I just think that coming in at 7 with the security of a half decent #8 gives him the time he needs to start seeing the ball properly. That way, by the time he's left with the dregs he can be smacking boundaries all over the place instead of getting out cheap playing one of his favourite stupid drives to mid-on which he only felt compelled to do anyway because some lanky Geordie's stood down the other end waving a bat around.

[Maestro]

I thought cricket was a ****ing summer sport?

[Matt]

It's never summer in New Zealand. It's worse than here.

[wiw]

Is this on tele?

[Abdul Alhazred]

It's never summer in New Zealand. It's worse than here.

It's been a very pleasant summer here in Auckland: I've spent large chunks of it in the pool/on the beach

You must be thinking of Wellington or Christchurch.

And go the Black Caps, Vettori gives hope to all us speccy ****s

[Abdul Alhazred]

425-7

tee hee

[livvy145]

Is this on tele?

Sky Sports 1

470-9