The Wrestling Thread

[MrShawnMichaels]

Raw 3.2

Impact 0.86

NXT 0.9

Raw surprising did a low number but I'm guessing some of it had to do with going head to head with Dancing with the Stars in the first hour. Raw's go home shows going to Wrestlemania aren't particularly the best as the main build up is already done. It's a matter of using video packages to help build anticipation for the individual feuds.

Raw was squarely focused on Wrestlemania and rather than using a lot of wrestling, as noted they used a lot of packages and promos to bring importance to Wrestlemania.

Michaels started with a promo on how he will be remembered for the guy to end the Undertaker's streak. It was an ok promo. Lights went out and a video package aired chronicling Michaels career and a 'Michaels Career 85-10' at the end symbolising his death in wrestling. Michaels told Taker to say that to his face. That brought out guest host Pete Rose, who made Shawn Michaels vs. Kane for later in the show. He wanted Michaels to get revenge on Kane, since Kane attacked Rose at WrestleMania three straight years. Pete Rose was awful in this segment and totally killed any momentum by Michaels.

John Morrison beat Miz. R. Truth and Big Show did commentary. R Truth sucked, Show schooled him. They are trying to put the faces over in order to get some much needed momentum at the PPV.

Kingston beat Kozlov in the MITB qualifier with Jack Swagger doing commentary. He sucked as well but he did say he wanted nothing to do with Kozlov. Swagger did say he would cash his MITB briefcase should he win. HINT HINT

Cody Rhodes and Ted DiBiase cut a promo before their match. They had sly digs at each other and you can see these two beating each other up at the WrestleMania. Sheamus, Cody Rhodes and Ted DiBiase beat Randy Orton and HHH as Sheamus got the pin over Randy Orton. Don't know what that accomplished. I think during these matches, it's worth taking a toilet break or making something in the kitchen.

Bret Hart cut a good promo. Talked about how he thought he wouldn't return to WrestleMania but he's back and he is tired of “Bret screwed Bret” and next week it will be “Bret beat Vince.” He didn't refute McMahon's claim of the Harts being dysfunctional and went on to say his sisters will whip his ass on Pheonix. ret mentioned that he has some great memories at Mania of his matches with Steve Austin, Shawn Michaels, Roddy Piper and his brother Owen. He vowed to be the best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be at this year’s Mania. Vince then came out and said that at Mania Bret is screwed leaving a bit of mystery and intrigue.

Shawn Michaels beat Kane in a no-DQ match. What we learned here is that Michaels can kick out of the chokeslam. Lights went out during the match and Kane replaced Taker and he chokeslammed Shawn. Lights went out and back on Kane went for the cover and Michaels kicked out at two. Michaels won not too long later with the Sweet Chin Music.

Michelle McCool. Layla and Maryse beat Beth Phoenix, Gail Kim and Eve Torres in an exceedingly brief match. That sucked.

Batista came out with security. He said that people have to get used to the fact he is the champion and Cena is losing at Mania. Batista said Cena has never beaten him and will never beat him. Batista basically reiterated his promo from a few weeks ago about not caring about fans and only about money. John Cena joined Batista and was greeted by “you can’t wrestle” chants. He said he had lost confidence in himself because he keeps failing to stop Batista. Batista said Cena is a loser just like all the people. That changed Cena and he called Batista a jerk and said he wasn't an animal but a human like everyone else. They feuded and got pulled apart for the end of the show.

This year has probably seen the best build up to Mania in a very long time, I'd go as far as Wrestlemania XX. I hope WWE continue to invest in long term planning and concentrate on good character and story building.

[MrShawnMichaels]

Impact all in all was an improvement compared to previous shows however it still had it stupid booking in this show.

Bischoff was in the ring strumming a guitar, which was cleverly edited, as it wasn't him. He said he hated Jarrett because unlike he, Jarrett is not a trained musician. He called Jarrett out and told him to perform, Jarrett refused and Bischoff called him a coward and encouraged Jarrett to punch him. Jarrett instead hit him with the guitar. I don't understand Bischoff pushing Jarrett to punch him so he could sack Jarrett. If you don't like someone, as a boss, you can sack anyone. Anyway, it was a good visual seeing a guitar smacking Bischoff. Foley was waiting backstage and congratulated Jarrett. Bischoff got back up and made a match between Foley and Jarrett in a loser leaves match. Why no build? It's because it's TNA.

Daffney and the Beautiful People beat Tara, Angelina Love, Sarita and Taylor Wilde in a plodding match but they continued the feud between Daffney and Tara after the former stole Poison from Tara. Tenay announced that those two would face each other in a first blood match. WHY?!

Styles and Flair came in using crutches and a wheelchair respectively. Hilarious watching Flair.

Hogan and Abyss cut a promo. Hogan announced a Survivor Series type match at Lockdown between his team, captained by Abyss and Flair's team. Abyss cut an awesome promo which promoted Flair who yelled 'Shut that damn music'. Flair wheeled by Chelsea said Sting was his captain. Styles went to town on Abyss calling him a nobody and the lights went out. For ages. When Taker does this, it's quick but this took forever. Sting was sitting on the turnbuckle, Hogan handcuffed to the ropes and Styles was in the ring. Styles beat down on Abyss, Pope made the save and the faces worked on Styles who was booked like an idiot on this segment. He didn't even touch Hogan. Hogan was freed and got a hold of Flair, still on the ramp and wheeled him down. Imagine that 20 or even 10 years ago. Hogan wheeling Flair down a ramp. Abyss gave Flair a clothesline in the chair and Pope did the old Ted DiBiase thing with the money.

Rob Terry beat Tyson Tomko and his belly. Nothing much but Tomko needs to go on a diet with Matt Hardy.

Jeff Jarrett defeated Mick Foley in a Loser Gets Fired No DQ match with Beer Money as special guest referees. Slow match with neither getting heat or performing with any ring psychology. It was straight finish as Foley got the stroke on the chair. Foley was cheered and got some 'Thank you' chants and the 'Goodbye' song. Nothing says farewell than the Goodbye song. Maybe the fans know that this stipulation won't stick. After the match, Beer Money beat down on Jarrett and RVD and Jeff Hardy made the rescue prompting RVD to ask Beer Money, 'Who's Beer and who's Money?' which James Storm shouted 'I'm Beer!' They challenged Beer Money to a match which was accepted.

Foley was shown leaving the building, where he asked Sarita not to hug him since his wife was watching. Foley saved his most emotional goodbyes to Abyss and Jeremy Borash. Then Bubba the Love Sponge appeared on camera and was booed out of the building. He wanted to ask Foley about losing his last match, and Foley said Bubba was among the last people he wanted to talk with. Bubba then told Foley don’t let the doorknob hit your ass on the way out, and Foley responded with a punch. He then did his “Bang, Bang” catchphrase before leaving. Broke his nose apparently

Matt Morgan vs Hernandez in a no finish. I hate lame ass shoot finishes when the paramedics come out and Tazz taking his glasses off. Lame. One thing which was funny was Hogan telling Homicide, who is Hernandez is mate all of a sudden, to call his wife because she's not watching Impact. She was probably watching Raw.

RVD and Jeff Hardy beat Beer Money in a fabulous PPV styled match. I loved RVD on the hot tag. Tremendous stuff from both teams and Beer Money as heels can work excellently. The finish was quite spectacular, Hardy hit the Twist of Faith on Roode followed by the Swanton and then RVD finished with the Five Star Frogsplash.

Eric Young came at the end and announced a match between the Wolfpac and Young, RVD and Hardy.

Thoughts: At least they are announcing matches a week in advance. That's a start. Besides a few segments, a thoroughly enjoyable show and encouraging. The bad news is the Wolfpac in their 50s fighting next week and a first blood womens match.

[MrShawnMichaels]

Goldberg was never really ever to cut it.

His gimmick was his unbeatable push, but that's impossible to book successfully long-term. Yeah he was massively over in wcw, and yeah I marked for him at the time, but his wwe run showed it couldn't be replicated for him without the push. Technically he really was never a very good wrestler really.

TNA has enough problems with the likes of Flair and Hogan running amock without adding Bill to the mix. Imo

There was always an idea to bring Goldberg in this year. I don't think he is really interesting in being an active wrestler but more working behind the scenes. I'm possibly thinking he is using Twitter as a bargaining position to get more money from TNA.

[MrMichael]

Thoughts: At least they are announcing matches a week in advance. That's a start. Besides a few segments, a thoroughly enjoyable show and encouraging. The bad news is the Wolfpac in their 50s fighting next week and a first blood womens match.

Hehe, I thought it was a pretty ok show myself. The main event was excellent, and personally I thought Jarrett - Foley was ok too all things considered. At least there was a semi-substantial amount of actual wrestling on the show. And Foley punching Bubba was a mark out moment for sure

Anything involving Abyss, Hogan, Flair and AJ makes me cringe, I hate that stupid storyline. Only the Pope can save us from that insanity!

The Hernandez thing was apparently because he's off to AAA for a few months through some agreement tna have with them. I also dislike injury works, but I've seen them done worse than that, and it'll get Morgan more heat.

As for next week, the women's first blood match - why? Because Daffney is a freak, why else. Officially my favourite woman in wrestling ever, she can take a bump as well as any man and portrays her character brilliantly. They've had her black-hole slammed into tacks and through tables, why not a bit of blood?

And the wolfpac'll do ok, Xpac will take most of the punishment and he's pretty decent in the ring still. Apparently that match is in a cage too....

There was always an idea to bring Goldberg in this year. I don't think he is really interesting in being an active wrestler but more working behind the scenes. I'm possibly thinking he is using Twitter as a bargaining position to get more money from TNA.

Perhaps. How about a swerve for Vince at Wrestlemania.... "so Brett, you thought you were fighting me? Say hello to the guy who kicked you in the head and ended your career...."

[MrMichael]

Oh, and NXT's ratings have dropped every week, its below what ecw was doing now. Looks like it'll only get one run then.

The ratings system makes no sense anyway. A 0.9 on a Monday and 0.9 on a Tuesday do not necessarily equal even remotely the same no. of viewers, its about audience share. TNA doing a 1.2 on Thursday usually equalled about 1.2 million viewers. Their 0.86 on a Monday was almost the same amount.

I've been back and watched all the NXT shows so far after your rave reviews, mixed opinions really. I hate what they're doing to Bryan, I can see where they're going with him and it might work... or they might bury him before we ever get to that point. I suppose they've gotta do something to stop him showing the rest of their "rookies" up in a major way, especially given his size. Have to say I don't see a great amount in the rest of them, the "wwe style" is so flipping generic though its hard to tell really. The lad who does the 420, Justin Gabriel is it? I see an Evan Bourne career trajectory for him sadly. The lad with Jericho is getting quite a rub from the best heel in the business, but I'm not sure how he'd do on his own. That Otunga bloke looks ok I suppose.



Edit, lol, just read this, first time I've seen Vince properly comment about TNA

Speaking to Acorn Online, WWE Chairman Vince McMahon rips TNA for its struggle to make any sort of impact in the ongoing "Monday Night War" with his company's RAW telecast.

Notably, McMahon explains that TNA offers a dated product--"pro wrasslin'"--that is not compatible with the expectations of the modern WWE fan.

"We’re in different businesses," says McMahon. "We’re in the entertainment business and they’re in the ‘pro wrasslin’ business. It’s different markets. When they moved to Monday nights they threw the kitchen sink at us and only did a fraction of our audience. It doesn’t speak well for the type of product they’re trying to present with the tawdry, blood-soaked action. I don’t think that’s what the culture wants these days.”

McMahon adds that his company, which is "woven into the fabric of America," represents a true family affair.

Says McMahon, "If you look at the audience for our live events you will see fathers and sons and mothers and sons and brothers and sisters. This is something an entire family can go out and enjoy together. It’s a lot like baseball in that respect."

[MrShawnMichaels]

Daffney and Tara had a horrific match at Destination X. They both can't work properly and to see women juicing up, it's pretty weird. It's done well in Japan but I can't see these two pulling it off.

Vince Russo called: He loves the idea on the nonsensical swerve and wants to discuss it with you.

[MrShawnMichaels]

I'm guessing the idea with Daniel Bryan is to try to get others a push. He's obviously got a reputation and he's probably the only wrestler who's gone over with the fans despite not winning a single match. Quite incredible but I like him and he's a terrific worker. I'd like for him to do a programme with Punk in the near future. I know they were tag partners at ROH but they could work a masterclass in the ring, given both have fantastic ring psychology.

[MrMichael]

Daffney and Tara had a horrific match at Destination X. They both can't work properly and to see women juicing up, it's pretty weird. It's done well in Japan but I can't see these two pulling it off.

Probably not. I really don't rate Tara though, I think she's awkward in the ring. Shame Hamada's injured and they're doing nothing with Sarita, those 2 really do work well. I think you're being harsh on Daffney though, sure she's no great technician but she sells a story, bumps like a trooper, and her character is great.

Vince Russo called: He loves the idea on the nonsensical swerve and wants to discuss it with you.

I'm guessing the idea with Daniel Bryan is to try to get others a push. He's obviously got a reputation and he's probably the only wrestler who's gone over with the fans despite not winning a single match. Quite incredible but I like him and he's a terrific worker. I'd like for him to do a programme with Punk in the near future. I know they were tag partners at ROH but they could work a masterclass in the ring, given both have fantastic ring psychology.

Totally agree, and I see what they're doing, but if they have him lose too much it won't help him in the long run.

[Jayesh87]

Is Rocky still due back in the summer? : )

[Imy]

Quite looking foward to Mania, WWE has built up some of the fueds really well for once, my Predictions

Miz show to beat Truth and Morrison

Drew McIntyre to win MITB

Mysterio over CM Punk (Punk is by far the best thing in WWE right now)

Y2J to retain the heavyweight championship

Womens match to be boring

Bret Hart to defeat Mr McMahon

Ted D over Rhodes and Orton

Undertaker to defeat Michaels to continue the streak

Cena to beat Batista to send all the kids home happy.

[johnly]

Is Rocky still due back in the summer? : )

Apparently so

Quite looking foward to Mania, WWE has built up some of the fueds really well for once, my Predictions

Miz show to beat Truth and Morrison

Drew McIntyre to win MITB

Mysterio over CM Punk (Punk is by far the best thing in WWE right now)

Y2J to retain the heavyweight championship

Womens match to be boring

Bret Hart to defeat Mr McMahon

Ted D over Rhodes and Orton

Undertaker to defeat Michaels to continue the streak

Cena to beat Batista to send all the kids home happy.

Can't wait for Mania. WWE has done an amazing build for this year, (unlike last year which besides HBK/Taker was ****e)

My predictions are as follows

Taker
Cena
Jericho
Punk
Sheamus
Drew to win MiTB
Mizshow
Hart
Orton

There's talk of HHH wanting to go heel again, possibly interfering in the HBK/Taker match

Dave Meltzer off wrestling observer has been reporting he's concerned for his friends in TNA, apparently they have some serious financial issues

[MrMichael]

Dave Meltzer off wrestling observer has been reporting he's concerned for his friends in TNA, apparently they have some serious financial issues

Haha, Meltzer is a douche.

Having said that, Hogan, RVD, Jeff, Flair etc won't be coming cheap, I doubt they can sustain their current spending over time but I can't see them being in trouble so soon after starting to spend like this. Unless there's some really bad business going on.

Anyway, forget about that........ Orlando Jordan's latest gimmick. WTF?

[Jayesh87]

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZG6AzVOERo"]YouTube- john cena entrance wrestlemania 25[/nomedia]

Its gonne be EPIC

[johnly]

Haha, Meltzer is a douche.

Having said that, Hogan, RVD, Jeff, Flair etc won't be coming cheap, I doubt they can sustain their current spending over time but I can't see them being in trouble so soon after starting to spend like this. Unless there's some really bad business going on.

Anyway, forget about that........ Orlando Jordan's latest gimmick. WTF?

Meltzer is a bit of a clown, but is credible to be fair. TNA have had financial probs since they launched, Panda energy have lost money on them every year and now with the added cost of live tv, expensive talent and more promotion (like the ads in NYC) they've really specualted to accumulate. There's been a small boost in house show revenue and merchandise sales but nothing major. TV ratings and PPV ratings continue to come nowhere near to Raw. This is one that will take time and a lot of it. If the backers are serious, then they'll be along for the long ride.
Although the new Orlando Jordan gimmick won't help anyone! Someone must have been nailing crack, MDMA, meow meow (or whatever) and coke to think of that thing. There was apparently a chant of "that was creepy" after he re-debuted. Ugh

[MrShawnMichaels]

Meltzer is by far the best writer in the business. He has some tremendous sources but to be honest, these rumours of TNA going under aren't new. I was reading a few weeks back that they are looking to downscaling their roster, which they obviously need to do. You can't have a 60-man roster (check the site) all for one show. WWE have an 80 man roster and they have three shows plus a gazillion house shows in a week.

WWE are expected to hit record numbers in PPV buys for Wrestlemania, around 1.1-1.3 which is extraordinary. TNA need to tour out on TV shows and PPVs a lot more and start getting higher numbers. They won't fill 20,000 but even half that is a considerable achievement. TNA fans in the Impact Zone suck to be fair, they don't know the different between faces and heels.