England v Saffers

[Jayesh87]

203 All Out

[Matt]

All batsmen go through bad spells and because he's the captain it's highlighted. Same happened with Hussain and Atherton. McGrath, Merv Hughes and Ambrose used to own Atherton, often he'd fall in the first over.
Hussain went through a spell where he kept getting variable low bounce and LBW. Form is temporary, class is permanent.

It's been a long 'temporary', Vaughan hasn't played consistently well since 2002/03.

Is Hoggard injured? If he's fit I can't believe he wasn't picked.

[Shaggy]

It's been a long 'temporary', Vaughan hasn't played consistently well since 2002/03.

Absolutely! This is not a dip - bar a ton against NZ the bloke just has not and does not score runs. Stuart Broad has scored more than Vaughan in the time since Broad's debut and Vaughan's woeful form goes way further back than Broad's debut. That says it all.

As for the captain - this is the major issue and a fair question. I want Vaughan dropped but there are no stand-out captains. KP, Flintoff, Bell....no way. Strauss is the closest I can think of but for me he's better off concentrating on maintaining his revival.

Tough one. We have a captain who, since his injury problems, can't buy a run, but no alternative skipper.

[Shaggy]

nor is Pattinson, he was born in Grimsby

I know.

[Matt]

Absolutely! This is not a dip - bar a ton against NZ the bloke just has not and does not score runs. Stuart Broad has scored more than Vaughan in the time since Broad's debut and Vaughan's woeful form goes way further back than Broad's debut. That says it all.

As for the captain - this is the major issue and a fair question. I want Vaughan dropped but there are no stand-out captains. KP, Flintoff, Bell....no way. Strauss is the closest I can think of but for me he's better off concentrating on maintaining his revival.

Tough one. We have a captain who, since his injury problems, can't buy a run, but no alternative skipper.

It's a tough call. The only way I can see him getting some form back is if he went down to 5 where there's not as much pressure but that would mean Bell moving up again.

Ambrose batting at 6 is a sad state of affairs too. Maybe we could get the boffins to clone a young Alec Stewart.

[Matt]

WICKET FOR FREDDIE!!

[livvy145]

76-4

Maybe. There's a stewards.

76-3

Amla still in.

[Red Chilli]

It's a tough call. The only way I can see him getting some form back is if he went down to 5 where there's not as much pressure but that would mean Bell moving up again.

Ambrose batting at 6 is a sad state of affairs too. Maybe we could get the boffins to clone a young Alec Stewart.

Don't agree with putting him down to 5, who's going to go 3 then?

Vaughan is a natural top 3 batsman, no point in having him in with the bowlers, he'll still get out if someone bowls him a ball like today early doors.

[Matt]

Don't agree with putting him down to 5, who's going to go 3 then?

Vaughan is a natural top 3 batsman, no point in having him in with the bowlers, he'll still get out if someone bowls him a ball like today early doors.

Lets be fair, no one could do worse than Vaughan has recently. He's opened and played at 3 and 4 in the last year or two and done very little.

Having the captaincy shouldn't be such a burden on his form. Look at Ricky Ponting. Speaking of which, if Vaughan was Australian he would have been bombed out of the team ages ago.

Don't know about who I'd have to bat at 3 to be honest, probably no one that's playing today.

[Red Chilli]

Lets be fair, no one could do worse than Vaughan has recently. He's opened and played at 3 and 4 in the last year or two and done very little.

Having the captaincy shouldn't be such a burden on his form. Look at Ricky Ponting. Speaking of which, if Vaughan was Australian he would have been bombed out of the team ages ago.

Don't know about who I'd have to bat at 3 to be honest, probably no one that's playing today.

So we've got no captain and no number 3 and you want to drop Vaughan.

The captaincy isn't a burden on his form at all, it's so blatantly obvious what his problem is. The man has been injured since 2005 and has never really had time to rehabilitate. The effect (of his knee injury) is his footwork is poor in the early stages of his inings. Once he gets his feet moving he's away. Unfortunately too many people have short memories when it comes to Vaughan, saying he's been out of form since 2002 is ridiculous, he was a key player in the 2005 Ashes win.

[Red Chilli]

When was the last time Flintoff got a decent score in Test cricket?

[Matt]

Vaughan's captaincy in the Ashes was very good but his batting? He made one 150+ and one half century but got out several times in single figures.

Point taken on the injuries but at the very highest level he's going to be (and has been) punished regularly with poor footwork. At least batting down the order there's a chance he might not face the strike bowlers early on.

Not sure your point on Flintoff is valid, he's arguably our best bowler and we're lucky that he also has the ability to turn a match with the bat.

I'm just frustrated because I think if we go into the Ashes with this team we'll most likely get hammered. Ambrose is very unconvincing, Freddie is hit and miss and Vaughan is not the player he was 5 years ago. That leaves you with 4 players who you rely on for scores (one of those being Ian Bell!)

I think KP could do a job at 3, as could Strauss. It's a shame that Trescothick isn't on the scene anymore because he could solve a lot of problems.

For what it's worth I'd try this:

Cook
Strauss
Pietersen
Bell
Vaughan (c)
Prior
Flintoff
Broad
Anderson
Sidebottom
Panesar

[Scratch]

Vaughan's captaincy in the Ashes was very good but his batting? He made one 150+ and one half century but got out several times in single figures.

Point taken on the injuries but at the very highest level he's going to be (and has been) punished regularly with poor footwork. At least batting down the order there's a chance he might not face the strike bowlers early on.

Not sure your point on Flintoff is valid, he's arguably our best bowler and we're lucky that he also has the ability to turn a match with the bat.

I'm just frustrated because I think if we go into the Ashes with this team we'll most likely get hammered. Ambrose is very unconvincing, Freddie is hit and miss and Vaughan is not the player he was 5 years ago. That leaves you with 4 players who you rely on for scores (one of those being Ian Bell!)

I think KP could do a job at 3, as could Strauss. It's a shame that Trescothick isn't on the scene anymore because he could solve a lot of problems.

For what it's worth I'd try this:

Cook
Strauss
Pietersen
Bell
Vaughan (c)
Prior
Flintoff
Broad
Anderson
Sidebottom
Panesar

I'd still bring back Simon Jones, he's overcome his injury problems and is storming it at New Road. A much better option than Anderson and Broad, but as Broad also offers batting ability, i'd be tempted to drop Anderson.

[Matt]

Not a bad shout, he's proven at the highest level. Don't think you can drop Jimmy on current form although I've slated him in the past. It's great to have genuine options though.

[Scratch]

Not a bad shout, he's proven at the highest level. Don't think you can drop Jimmy on current form although I've slated him in the past. It's great to have genuine options though.

I know, that's the problem. It's out of Anderson and Broad (unless you go with all seamers and drop Monty???) and although Jimmy ain't done nothing wrong, he hasn't got the same ability as Jones to move the ball around...

...think of it like football...even if Plessis is doing a great job in the defensive midfield role, you'd still bring in Mascher the moment he was fit and healthy.