Who is the greatest?

[Scratch]

B*ll*cks. That's guilt by association and smacks of ignorance or laziness or both.

Guilt by association...cycling tainted itself with its drugs image, in the same way that sprinters are tainted, and there are many out there that are sceptical of people like Usain Bolt, Carl Lewis, Michael Johnson...all innocent of drug taking, but all still suspected of it because of their greatness...

[Neil Young]

Cavendish didn't taint himself though and that's who I was talking about (I wasn't actually seriously nominating him as the greatest cyclist in the world although he is undoubtedly the fastest road cyclist right now).

You seem to be confusing dopers, systematic doping and a lax or complicit attitude by authorities with clean athletes. I don't see how the achievements of honest athletes are dragged down by the fact there are others who cheat. Is Torres less of a player because of the existence of Drogba, Ronaldo or any other diver?

[dww]

Or the fact that football systematically refuses to sign up to proper anti-doping laws which must at least make one slightly suspiscious.

[dww]

From the wiki article about doping in football (sources in the link):

Spain

The French paper Le Monde alleges that in the course of investigating Operation Puerto, a doping bust primarily focused on cycling, extensive documentation was found of "seasonal preparation plans" for Real Madrid and FC Barcelona that include notation suggesting doping practices. [1] Sources suggest that of the 200 sportspersons implicated in Operation Puerto, approximately 50 were cyclists (including notable names such as Ivan Basso and Tyler Hamilton) and the remaining 150 were from other sporting codes, including football. The football players were never pursued in the investigation, leading to claims of double standards between sports. [2]

[Neil Young]

In fact,

[Guest]

A phd student quoting Wikipedia.

[Neil Young]

I'm only posting here because it just doesn't seem right to read "Who is the greatest?" and then see the last word on the matter going to old fredo.

[Darkon]

Woods vs. Federer - stats

So thought I would take it up again after wimbledon with a few stats:

Tiger Woods

Age 34

Years as a pro 13

Number of proffesional wins 92

Number of Majors ( 4 tournaments) 14

Consecutive weeks as number 1 264

Current position 1

Player of the year 9 times



Roger Federer

Age 28

Years as a pro 10

Number of proffesional wins 60

Number of Majors ( 4 tournaments) 15

Consecutive weeks as number 1 237

Current position 1

Player of the year 5 times

__________________________


These are just a few stats really, but what have been discussed so far.

Considering the amounts of years played as a pro, I still think Federer is the best of the two. If other stats such as consecutive tournaments wins, and back to back major wins are considered, I think it is even more stricking.

[Pablo]

Those stats to me prove beyond doubt it Woods. To win 92 golf tournaments is insane. The crucial difference here is that Woods is not in control of his own destiny in terms of winning a golf tournament. He can only post the best score possible and hope that no one betters it. In contrast Federer just needs to take it one game at a time, beat whoever is in front of him, and crucially is in total control of his own destiny.

Two of the greatest sportsmen of all time without question, but Woods simply has no peers even close to his level in his one sport and possibly never will.

[Shaggy]

Those stats to me prove beyond doubt it Woods. To win 92 golf tournaments is insane. The crucial difference here is that Woods is not in control of his own destiny in terms of winning a golf tournament. He can only post the best score possible and hope that no one betters it. In contrast Federer just needs to take it one game at a time, beat whoever is in front of him, and crucially is in total control of his own destiny.

Two of the greatest sportsmen of all time without question, but Woods simply has no peers even close to his level in his one sport and possibly never will.

[Pablo]

I was thinking about this again this morning and in terms of my own personal favourite Michael Johnson has to be up there for me. I loved watching him run with his crazy chest puffed out like a peacock style. He was the consumate professional, absolutely loves his sport, and is quite articulate too.

That 200m world record in Atlanta was one of the best things I've ever seen in my life.

[Shaggy]

To think he could run that fast as well as moonwalk, sing and dance, is quite remarkable. RIP Michael.

[wiw]

Taxi for Shaggy

[wiw]

That's actually started to make me smile the more I think about it Proper Dad joke that one

[Shaggy]

Well I am a Dad so......