Any NBA followers here?

[Darkon]

Clippers getting Howard is rumoured to be close as well!

[Chazza]

Just reading about that, a 3 team trade with Cleveland?

They will have arguably the best 2 players in the game in the positions where the Heat are weakest plus some decent outside scorers

[Harv]

huge trade nearing completion for Dwight Howard apparently. Nets giving Lopez, Hump, Marshon Brooks + picks. Possiby 4 teams involved!

Will be firmly on the Brooklyn bandwagon if this happens Already leaning to them for the East. Brooklyns just so hip

Brooklyn and Golden State FTW

[Darkon]

Good move indeed, but from the Celtic perspective Rondo > Allen so makes sense moving him on.

They have signed Jason Terry as a replacement, not to bad really.

[Chris]

Yeah it's a good move for them for sure, he'll get a lot of open looks there!

Garnett agreed a new 3 year deal about a week or so ago.

[Chazza]

Apparently him and Rondo hated each other

And I would guess that puts paid to Garnett giving it another season

[Chazza]

Nice addition for them

[Chris]

Yep.

[Chazza]

Big move by Ray Allen!

Gone to the Heat?

[Chris]

Big move by Ray Allen!

[Chazza]

Jason Kidd joining the Knicks with the idea of mentoring Lin

Lin though has got a 30mil offer on the table to go back to the Rockets

[Darkon]

I watched a lot of NBA up through the 90's, almost bigger than football for me at the time, seen plenty of Jordan even had posters and Bulls stuff so I know plenty how good he was.

I'm just saying it's not as one sided as people tend to call it just because Jordan is a legend and have had more seasons in the NBA. Will be interesting to see how they compare further down the line, although I still don't think it's an enterily valid comparison. It's a bit like when people compare current footballers with past legends, makes little sense in the end but always tempting to do it.

[Harv]

Going on stats Shawn Marion was the best player in the league for the best part of last decade....and Jason Kidd almost has the most triple doubles ever. Is he better than both?

Ive watched both mate. Jordan was on another planet he was that good....and this was in the golden age of NBA. Look at the competition he had to face night in night out. The league is soft as butter now compared to the late 80's early 90's.

The only thing Lebron is better at is rebounding, because he's bigger. Thats it. Jordan has him covered in every other department. Don't let stats fool you. Jordan doesn't have the assist stats because he didn't need to pass...he could do it himself and more often than not did

[Darkon]

On the double and trebles:

Jordan after 15 years: 151 doubles and 25 triples

Lebron after 9 years: 195 doubles and 32 triples

[Darkon]

Uhm, no if you read one sentence further you would see that I didn't

Not saying Jordan isn't the better player, he almost trancended the game, I was just saying the allround game Lebron have a few better stats. He has more doubles and treble doubles than Jordan for example indicating a good overall game. Defensively Jordan was a better player But many also tend to compare an entire career of Jordan to only half with Lebron. It will be interesting in 6-7 years to see how they compare, although I still don't think it's quite a fair comparison, much like comparing footballers across era's and positions.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/8143/mj-vs-lebron-what-the-stats-say

How does the 26-year-old LeBron James stack up with the 26-year-old Michael Jordan?

Scottie Pippen joined ESPN's "Mike & Mike in the Morning" on Friday and did what has been done a million times since LeBron James graced the cover of Sports Illustrated as "The Chosen One" back in 2002:

He compared LeBron to Michael.

But Pippen also did what has been done maybe only once: he said LeBron may be better.

Key word: may.

The exact quote:

Michael Jordan is probably the greatest scorer to ever play in the game, but I may go as far as to say that LeBron James may be the greatest player to ever play the game because he's so potent offensively that not only can he score at will, but he keeps everybody involved and you have to be on your P's and Q's on defense because no guy on the basketball court is not a threat to score when LeBron James is out there.



It's interesting to hear Jordan's longtime teammate say that the reason LeBron may be superior is that "he keeps everybody involved."

Is Pippen right?

Is Jordan a better scorer than LeBron? Probably. Is LeBron a better distributor? Probably. Does that make LeBron a better player than Jordan?

Now, that's where we need some help.

Let's put Pippen's assertion to the test.

If we're doing an honest evaluation, we need to grade LeBron and Jordan on the same age curve. Let's compare LeBron's statistical profile to Jordan's statistical profile through their age-26 season.

LeBron vs. MJ (cumulative per-game stats thru age-26)
Player Min FGA FG% 3FG% FT% Reb Ast TO Pts USG PER
Regular LeBron 40.1 20.6 47.9 32.9 74.4 7.1 7.0 3.3 27.7 31.8 26.9
Regular Jordan 39.0 23.4 51.6 28.2 84.8 6.3 6.0 3.3 32.8 33.8 29.9
Player Min FGA FG% 3FG% FT% Reb Ast TO Pts USG PER
Playoffs LeBron 43.6 20.8 45.9 32.3 74.9 8.5 7.0 3.6 28.7 32.1 27.0
Playoffs Jordan 42.5 25.1 50.5 30.4 83.3 6.9 6.7 3.8 35.8 35.5 29.6


Here, we see that LeBron and Jordan are similar ballplayers in the sense that they score a lot points, they grab rebounds and distribute the ball. Jordan looks to be the superior scorer. He scores more points per game and scores more efficiently, with 3-pointers being the only shooting area in which Jordan doesn't have a leg up on James.

And depending on how you look at it, Jordan was the better shot creator, or he was a bigger ball hog. Jordan shot 23.4 field goal attempts per game and used more possessions while on the floor (USG tells us his usage rate, which is the estimated percentage of team possessions used either via field goal attempt, free throw attempt or turnover).

In the playoffs, Jordan asserted himself more than LeBron. Jordan raised his usage rate to 35.5 percent while LeBron's role grew only marginally in the playoffs (from 31.8 percent to 32.1 percent). But the fact Jordan remained efficient while taking more responsibility indicates that he was creating good shots as opposed to hijacking the offense for himself.

But if we use assists as a measuring stick, LeBron is the better passer at this point. Both LeBron's assists per game and his assist rate (as a percentage of total possessions) rank superior to Jordan's. That's not a total surprise, but the gap is smaller than one might think in the playoffs on a per-game level (7.0 to 6.7).

Overall? Looks like Jordan has him beat through age-26. While it's not the end-all-be-all, Jordan's player efficiency rating (PER) is decidedly better. Using other all-in-one metrics like win shares, we find a similar story: Jordan was overall more valuable according to these catch-all measures.

Forget earlier in their career, is LeBron better than Jordan was at 26 years old?

Let's take a look:

LeBron vs. MJ at 26
Player Min FGA FG% 3FG% FT% Reb Ast TO Pts USG PER
Regular LeBron 38.8 18.8 51.0 33.0 75.9 7.5 7.0 3.6 26.7 31.5 27.3
Regular Jordan 39.0 24.0 52.6 37.6 84.8 6.9 6.3 3.0 33.6 33.7 31.2
Player Min FGA FG% 3FG% FT% Reb Ast TO Pts USG PER
Playoffs LeBron 44.0 18.9 46.3 36.8 78.7 8.9 5.5 2.8 26.0 28.6 26.9
Playoffs Jordan 42.1 26.6 51.4 32.0 83.6 7.2 6.8 3.5 36.7 36.1 31.6


Here, we see a similar story: Jordan's better, and more of a scorer. Statistically, it's worth noting that LeBron's numbers are warped because of his star teammates this season. If, for example, we use LeBron's 2009-10 season as a comparison, it actually looks quite favorable compared to Jordan. But then we're just jumping around all over the place.

One of the big takeaways here is that Jordan did not have to share the ball with Pippen. Or at least, not nearly to the same degree that James has to share with Dwyane Wade ... and then add Chris Bosh to that mix.

When Jordan was in the playoffs during his age-26 season in 1989-1990, he took 26.6 field goal attempts per game. Scottie Pippen that playoffs? 14.0 shots per game. Horace Grant didn't take even 10 shots per game. By comparison, Wade and Bosh have taken 17.7 and 13.3 shots per game, respectively.

So when we compare Jordan and James at age 26, we have to be cognizant of their surroundings and contexts. Additionally, Jordan played in a time when it was more physical for perimeter players because there was no hand-checking rule. So there's that, too, and it's no small thing.

When we look at the assists, Jordan actually has the upper hand when he was in the playoffs. So at this moment, after watching LeBron here in the playoffs, Scottie Pippen is claiming that LeBron may be the better distributor and a better creator for his teammates when, in fact, Jordan at this age was dropping more dimes than LeBron in the playoffs. Of course, James was tallying more assists in Cleveland during the playoffs when he had the ball in his hands almost exclusively. So that's worth keeping in mind.

Another way to look at this would be to compare how LeBron's teammates fare on and off the court with LeBron, and then see what Jordan's teammates looked like. If Jordan racked up assists and made his teammates play better, then he has a solid case that he was just as good of a distributor as LeBron is right now. Unfortunately, we don't have that data at the moment, but the stat geeks out there would love to get their hands on some on-court/off-court data to tease out some of the subtle aspects of the game.

In the end, Pippen's right: LeBron may be the greatest player ever to play the game. His story isn't over yet. He has the size, the athleticism and the tools to get there. But statistically, Jordan is the better scorer and the passing gap isn't great enough to say that LeBron matches Jordan at this juncture in their basketball lifetimes.

They're both great.

The thing is, LeBron has completely overhauled his reputation in a matter of weeks.

We're learning now that as soon as we think we have a handle on James, he decides to write his own chapter in history.

It's worth keeping in mind that Jordan didn't win his first title until his was 28 years old.

LeBron is 26 years old now.

What will be his next chapter?