Vuelta a España 2012

[Neil Young]

think thats why I love the tour, it really does require someone that can do it all to win it out-right.

[Neil Young]

In ostrich mode again K9?

It's tedious.

So you think they're all on drugs. Wow, that's so incredibly original.

I expect you know very little about professional cycling, including its history of doping, except what you've picked up from the mainstream press. But if you want to go on about it, start your own thread and maybe I'll discuss it there, if I can be arsed.

[RichC]

there has been a massive effort to clean the sport up and most are clean, problem is there will always be the few that make the majority look bad with their cheating.

[Neil Young]

Sorry to be snappy, Assassin, but you're not the first to come into these threads and say such things. Usually it's based on very little knowledge.

And it's pretty selfish to waltz into a thread and insult people who happen to enjoy talking about a sport they enjoy and may even be passionate about.

[Assassin]

It's tedious.

So you think they're all on drugs. Wow, that's so incredibly original.

I expect you know very little about professional cycling, including its history of doping, except what you've picked up from the mainstream press. But if you want to go on about it, start your own thread and maybe I'll discuss it there, if I can be arsed.

Have I hit a sore point? Professional cycling my arse, they are peddling test tubes

[Neil Young]

I withdraw the apology.

Just **** off.

[Assassin]

Sorry to be snappy, Assassin, but you're not the first to come into these threads and say such things. Usually it's based on very little knowledge.

And it's pretty selfish to waltz into a thread and insult people who happen to enjoy talking about a sport they enjoy and may even be passionate about.

Neil

I was not insulting you or your support of the sport you obviously love. I was merely voicing my opinion on the drug abuse in cycling. I don't pay too much attention to the daily rags. However, if you perform an Internet search there is sufficient evidence from qualified professionals to indicate the sport is riddled with cheats

Like I said previously I was not having a dig at you

[Assassin]

I withdraw the apology.

Just **** off.

Withdrawal accepted

[Neil Young]

There's an active thread about doping.

And you were just sounding off. Casemore and I were having an enjoyable discussion about a race - the title of this thread - and you just turn up and voice your ill-informed opinion, presumably as a wind-up. You have said nothing to back up your tiresome claim, totally ignored Casemore's unnecessarily reasoned response, only to repeat the accusation.

It's unnecessary and boorish.

[Neil Young]

Anyway, back to the races...

Today's stage of the USA Pro-Challenge was pretty exciting. The breakaway had a few minutes at one point even though one rider was only 42" down on GC, and there was interest all the way, regarding the KoM jersey as well as the overall.

It was a good, reasonably tough and even picturesque final climb and, with maybe 2k to go, Levi Leipheimer actually attacked and got enough of a gap to take the overall lead. Tomorrow is the final stage - an ITT of about 15km.

Van Garderen will probably be able to make up the gap but he lost 29" today so may not be in great condition. Vande Velde is also a contender obviously but Leipheimer looked good today and can turn in a good TT when he needs to. Klöden and Brajkovic could do it in principle but I doubt very much either will end up on the podium.

1 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Omega Pharma-Quickstep 25:39:50
2 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Garmin - Sharp 0:00:09
3 Tejay van Garderen (USA) BMC Racing Team 0:00:21
4 Joseph Lloyd Dombrowski (USA) Bontrager Livestrong Team ST
5 Ramiro Rincon Diaz (Col) EPM - Une 0:00:22
6 Andreas Klöden (Ger) RadioShack-Nissan 0:00:26
7 Peter Stetina (USA) Garmin - Sharp 0:00:38
8 Janez Brajkovic (Slo) Astana Pro Team 0:00:41
9 Ivan Rovny (Rus) RusVelo ST
10 Damiano Caruso (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale 0:00:52

[captainfog]

I'm probably going to regret asking this question but.... what are the bonuses? How does that work?

This question is for Neil or Casmore and not for Nige. Sorry Nige, but your cycling explanations are baffling.

[RichC]

It's to encourage sprinting, the first few over the line on a stage get a couple of seconds bonus over the rest, idea is to encourage racing more towards the end and rewarding the winner(s)

Apparently Froome would have won last year without the time bonuses

[Neil Young]

Yes, he would. Although the argument then would be if the rules had been different, the race would have been different.

Fog, the time bonuses work like this:

There are two points in each stage where there is an intermediate sprint - first three across the line get bonus seconds (and also points towards the points competition - the green jersey - but let's ignore that because it's not relevant towards the overall winner). These bonus seconds are knocked off each rider's overall time for the stage. You get 6" knocked off for crossing the intermediate sprint point first, 4" for second and 2" for third.

Then at the end of each stage, the first three riders again get bonus seconds - 12" for knocked off for first, 8" for second and 4" for third.

So yesterday, the breakaway riders crossed both intermediate sprint points in front of the peloton (main bunch), where the overall contenders were, so they got the bonus seconds but that's not important because they're all a lot of time behind the leaders on overall time.

The top four on the stage, with time gaps (total time for each rider in brackets) was:

1 Valverde 4:06:39
2 Rodriguez Same Time (4:06:39)
3 Contador ST (4:06:39)
4 Froome 0:00:15 (4:06:54)

But with bonuses, the times to be added to each rider's overall time for the race so far were:

1 Valverde 4:06:39 - 0:00:12 = 4:06:27
2 Rodriguez 4:06:39 - 0:00:08 = 4:06:31
3 Contador 4:06:39 - 0:00:04 = 4:06:35
4 Froome 4:06:54 - 0:00:00 = 4:06:54

So although Froome crossed the line only 15" behind Valverde, he lost 27" to him on overall time.

¿Es claro?

[captainfog]

as mud

they have a half way point sprint finish? and then they carry on to the end where they have another sprint finish?

[Neil Young]

It's just a line on the road - usually in a town so spectators can gather around it - part way through a stage. It's just to add interest by giving people an incentive to race before the end.

It's sort of like rules in limited overs cricket about the number of fielders inside the circle - they're arbitrary rules designed to add a bit of interest and to overcome some of the problems inherent in the way the sport works. In cricket, it's that fielding teams would like to put all their fielders on the boundary but that would make it more boring to watch. In cycling it's that riders benefit from being in someone else's slipstream so nothing much might happen for ages in a stage as the riders just plod along towards the end of the stage.

Personally I prefer the Tour's approach to it these days - no bonus seconds anywhere, a race on time.

The other jerseys - King of the Mountains and Points Classification - can add enough interest I think.