The Rugby Thread

[Doc_Piptorious]

Agree with that - but - who can stop them ? Only NZ for me …

Realistically NZ would be the only team one might fancy to beat them, and even then NZ would be the underdogs such is the quality of SA.

[Doc_Piptorious]

So after this, when I say that random people who aren't our traditional rivals have an inexplicable bias against South Africa, expats and our sports teams I get told that I'm wrong yet in every small sample like the above, everyone is wanting us not to win without justification.

Think part of what I posted in the Rugby thread Brightred started elsewhere kind of highlights why I am showing a bias against SA.

Only thing you left out was a dig at the South Africa team just so I could go at Zapater.

[Doc_Piptorious]

On the Irish stuff, every team gets bandwagon jumpers and they typically are arseholes. The Irish rugby fans that I know, long term fans were hugely wary of NZ and felt it we played well we could win but equally so could NZ

Most people i listen to backed SA to win it because they have the mix of power and skill, plus unbelievable depth. I told you I’ve spent a lot of time in SA and around proper Boers….. outside of Kiwis I’ve not met a more condescending bunch of fans. It’s part of the reason why both sides are do good - they believe it’s their right to win

Banter is fine, if you give it then you need to be able to take it. I remember going to see the Bulls once in a Munster jersey and I was getting jeered more than the Brumbies who they were playing

Would add the Dutch to that list in terms of self confidence and belief you will win/are better than the other players.


For me having a knock at SA on here amuses me as it is generally meant to get a playful response from Zap as I know he can be prone to defending his team.

Away from here SA (the rugby team) I have generally regarded in a similar way to how I regarded Man U in the 1990s.

A team that was equal parts brilliant and grit. A team that would destroy other teams when on form and eek out wins when off form.

So I had my ABU hat at times in footy and my ABSA hat for rugby.

[Irishnev]

Would add the Dutch to that list in terms of self confidence and belief you will win/are better than the other players.


For me having a knock at SA on here amuses me as it is generally meant to get a playful response from Zap as I know he can be prone to defending his team.

Away from here SA (the rugby team) I have generally regarded in a similar way to how I regarded Man U in the 1990s.

A team that was equal parts brilliant and grit. A team that would destroy other teams when on form and eek out wins when off form.

So I had my ABU hat at times in footy and my ABSA hat for rugby.

Boers are just tougher Dutch….. same background although Zap may take me up on that

[Doc_Piptorious]

Boers are just tougher Dutch….. same background although Zap may take me up on that

Did not want to go there so threw the Dutch in on their own, but seeing as you said it I will not disagree.



Unless we want to say the current Dutch (sports people) are just soft Boers.


I know who from the Dutch and South Africans I would be putting my money on in terms of mental fortitude when it comes to almost any sport though.

[Zapater]

Boers are just tougher Dutch….. same background although Zap may take me up on that

Not if our cricket team are anything to go by... What a bunch of losers, beating Australia and losing to the Netherlands. Embarrassing

[Irishnev]

Not if our cricket team are anything to go by... What a bunch of losers, beating Australia and losing to the Netherlands. Embarrassing

I was in the Loftus once and got there early to watch Ireland vs England in the 6 Nations. There was about 25 tvs in the bar so I asked the barman to change one which he kindly did….. the other 24 were showing the Lions play. Every ****er that passed the game I was watching mouthed something about women’s game, ****ing **** or the like

[Zapater]

For me having a knock at SA on here amuses me as it is generally meant to get a playful response from Zap as I know he can be prone to defending his team.

I love the banter and wasn't meaning to unravel drama. Stupidly rehashing a 5 or so year old claim I made that there is an international anti-SA agenda whereas long term posters; Buzzo, Nev and Cormack thought otherwise. So the mini (and unscientific) sample of several people chipping in served my agenda from back then.

The thing I find frustrating is that your level of opinion validity can be tied to the team you support. I've had conversations with people (typically England supporters, but a few Welsh) who think they understand the game better because their team is better. Being a Scotland supporter across numerous sports it has been something I have got quite used to, and with Rugby it has only really been the last few years where we are being taken seriously, but that hasnt meant we lack a serious opinion previously.

Think that might be an English arrogance thing (not posters on here but ones you find in the wild). I never bother speaking to English about football, I remember being told in a pub once that I don't get to have an opinion because "this is real football, not Kaiser Chiefs so I don't understand the complexities".

[Buzzo]

Ben O’Keefe to ref England v South Africa.

I think that’s a good choice. I think NH teams have struggled with breakdown interpretation from SH refs, but to me they let more go which is good.

There was a defensive set South Africa out on France on Sunday when France were playing with advantage that drove them back about 25m.

I struggle to see how England live with SA - dispassionately. France gave it everything and came up short and they are viewed as a once in a gen French team.

[Buzzo]

Think that might be an English arrogance thing (not posters on here but ones you find in the wild). I never bother speaking to English about football, I remember being told in a pub once that I don't get to have an opinion because "this is real football, not Kaiser Chiefs so I don't understand the complexities".

I’ve had a season pass since 2016. I’ve seen every support at least once (we’ve only played SA once at home).

The worst are definitely the English - I remember having a great chat with an England supporter at the bar at full time in 2017 and I really hang on to the memory of him as being totally sound (he was). But all other evidence suggests otherwise, supporters pissing in the sinks etc. I couldn’t imagine anything worse than an away match at Twickenham.

The Welsh can be quite chippy and dismissive also.

There are so many ex pats at the games v SA, AUS and NZ that it tends to be good banter.

It’s helped since we’ve been a bit better, but it was pretty much awful across the board for 15 or so years

The Irish tend to recall what it’s like to be us and we also have Irish friends we go with so that’s always ok too.

[Doc_Piptorious]

I’ve had a season pass since 2016. I’ve seen every support at least once (we’ve only played SA once at home).

The worst are definitely the English - I remember having a great chat with an England supporter at the bar at full time in 2017 and I really hang on to the memory of him as being totally sound (he was). But all other evidence suggests otherwise, supporters pissing in the sinks etc. I couldn’t imagine anything worse than an away match at Twickenham.

The Welsh can be quite chippy and dismissive also.

There are so many ex pats at the games v SA, AUS and NZ that it tends to be good banter.

It’s helped since we’ve been a bit better, but it was pretty much awful across the board for 15 or so years

The Irish tend to recall what it’s like to be us and we also have Irish friends we go with so that’s always ok too.

What? Being used to lots of rain, having accents that causes people to go "Could you say that again?", having sports teams that can bring us massive amounts of joy even when they do not win and the ability to hold a grudge for years after you have forgotten what the grude was about?



Nay herr Buzzo we do not recall what it was like to be you, you fecking are you.....or maybe you are us, it tends to get confusing



Would probably agree with your take on rugby fans though. I would not get to as many internationals as you as I tend to only get to the odd home game, but I would get to a number of Munster games (and a hell of a lot of them home and abroad in years gone) and there is very much stark differences in the mindsets of some fanbases when it comes to how they interact with their rival counterparts.


The French can be one of the most fascinating fanbases for me as the differences between their fan base at an internal level is nuts. Depending on the club that comes over or the one you go to see in an away game the receptions can range from salt of the earth to aloof to outright hostile, but then whgen Ireland play the French national team they somehow amalgamate into a pretty sound group that generally have a wry take on things.


English fans depend on where they are and what sort of numbers they are in. They are at home with the advantage of numbers and you get all the boorish behaviour, the dismissive stuff and sometimes hostile stuff if pissed. They are away and walking down the streets of Dublin with a few thousand Irish supporters for every couple hundred of them and they become sound lads.



NZ supporters never bother me, though that may be done to me knowing a number of Kiwis for years and being used to their mannerisms. Do prefer those from a Maori background though, again down to the folk I have known in my personal life.

SA supporters don't really bother me. Have had limited interactions with them at rugby games, only been to see Ireland play SA twice in my life (2004 and when they came to Ireland for the first test game in the Aviva - 2010 or 2011) but been in boxing crowds that had sizeable SA contingent and in the case where a fighter carries an Afrikaners or Boer name ( technically I know abn Afrikaner is a Boer but some I met preferred to identify as one over the other so I deferred to that) you got a crowd with more of an edge to it, though that does not mean I found them nasty just that you had to leave some nicities at the door during conversations and speak the way you were spoken to. You go down the placating route and I think you were seen as being somewhere between a fairweather fan and weak but straight away talk back in a very straight manner (not insulting mid you ) and you tended to get that "You're alright man"


Never got the dismissive thing from Welsh supporters, but then again most of my experience of them is through Munster games or games in Dublin. The majority I interacted with at any sporting event be it footy, rugby or boxing were dead sound tbh.



Aussies can be a bit funny at times. You either get a dead sound bunch or a bunch of utter arseholes though the latter does tend to be booze fuelled and usually outnumbered by the sound ones. Have been to two Aussie rules games in Oz though and rarely felt so welcome as an outsider at a game as I did at those.



As for the Jocks, probably should hate them as they act like us Irish and vice versa. They should invoke the Irish sense of self loathing but don't so that is confusing. Us Irish excel at tearing strips off of other Irish for no reason at all so the Scots throw that off. They are like us, they joke like us, they are sound so we should engage them with a sense of begrudgery but we don't.

Not sure if they are brothers from different mothers or if they open that awkward chicken and the egg question of did the Irish come from the Scots or the Scots from the Irish

Kind of the latter but not really

[Buzzo]

Some fair observations there. And it is definitely worth identifying if the person you are debating with follows club rugby - that tends to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Actually Andy Goode is a really top summariser of Rugby and as a passionate Englishman (and ex international) is always brutally honest about his team. This weeks Rugby Pod is well worth a listen as they dissect what they are referring to as the Greatest Weekend of Rugby of all time.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Some fair observations there. And it is definitely worth identifying if the person you are debating with follows club rugby - that tends to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Actually Andy Goode is a really top summariser of Rugby and as a passionate Englishman (and ex international) is always brutally honest about his team. This weeks Rugby Pod is well worth a listen as they dissect what they are referring to as the Greatest Weekend of Rugby of all time.

Oh Jesus don't even go there otherwise you are going to get the differences between supporters of Young Munsters (Yaaaay), Cork Cons (Boooo), Garryowen (Boooo- ish), UCC (Yaaaay), Shannon (hisssssss) and others chucked at you.



Plus I do not know who Nev roots for at club level in Ireland so it runs the risk of a domestic dispute too.


Have a horrible feeling he might be a Shannon RFC man.

[Irishnev]

Oh Jesus don't even go there otherwise you are going to get the differences between supporters of Young Munsters (Yaaaay), Cork Cons (Boooo), Garryowen (Boooo- ish), UCC (Yaaaay), Shannon (hisssssss) and others chucked at you.



Plus I do not know who Nev roots for at club level in Ireland so it runs the risk of a domestic dispute too.


Have a horrible feeling he might be a Shannon RFC man.

Cork Con because of my Dad but Garryowen as one if my best mate’s was a huge fan and we used to go watch

[Doc_Piptorious]

Cork Con because of my Dad but Garryowen as one if my best mate’s was a huge fan and we used to go watch

Might have stood on the same sidelines then.

Young Munster would be my team in that neck of the wood but did not mind watching Garryowen.