The Rugby Thread

[Buzzo]

Yeah, very inconsistent kicking from him. Cost them the game really.

That and the fact they coughed up to run ins to the boks.

Still, any win against the ABs is a big one and SA played really well.

[Zapater]

I can't believe it. What a win. Defence was excellent in the 2nd half. Well done Siya and the forwards. There's a lot to be negative about regarding the Boks, but this was excellent. Maybe there is something to look forward to.

Must be said that Barrett ended up losing the game from the boot, but quality regardless. A few awful decisions by them too. I think everyone (on both sides) thought the result was decided before it started and that overconfidence undid the ABs.

I'm a really big fan of Dyantyi. Think he has a bright future.

Yeah, they get so many decisions based on reputation.

Nigel Owens is a good ref though, he doesnt always play to the pressure.

In general, I'm a fan, but there were a couple of shockers in favour of NZ today. Love his 'this is not soccer'.

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I haven't been watching, but Australia seem to be having a meltdown against Argentina. Would be lovely to see another away win. Argentina lead at half time. LFC and Golovkin would make this a perfect sporting weekend.

[Buzzo]

I can't believe it. What a win. Defence was excellent in the 2nd half. Well done Siya and the forwards. There's a lot to be negative about regarding the Boks, but this was excellent. Maybe there is something to look forward to.

Must be said that Barrett ended up losing the game from the boot, but quality regardless. A few awful decisions by them too. I think everyone (on both sides) thought the result was decided before it started and that overconfidence undid the ABs.

I'm a really big fan of Dyantyi. Think he has a bright future.

In general, I'm a fan, but there were a couple of shockers in favour of NZ today. Love his 'this is not soccer.

He definitely gave them one scrum pen that should have been yours.

The yellow was fair enough though.

A well deserved win. De Klerk is amazing at Scrum Half, so much energy.

[Buzzo]

Argentina are ****. We hammered them with not far off a second string in the summer.

Not watching but if they are beating the Aussies then that is a big shock.

[Zapater]

Faf de Klerk on form is one of the best in the world after Smith and Perenara. Although, he can be pretty awful too. When the team is set up right, in an attacking way and he's providing quick ball, he is a cut above. Other times he's nowhere, hence he was benched by possibly the slowest and most ordinary scrum half I've seen, Ross Cronje. His box kicking is pretty **** too. Maybe I've just been spoilt with Fourie du Preez whom could do everything at a world class level. Definitely prefer Faf to Hougaard and think the move has given him something extra. Same with Willie, he was quite good today, was really poor in his last few years in South Africa, but seems to have gotten a bit of confidence back. I think there's a bit less pressure playing abroad.

[Irishnev]

Faf de Klerk on form is one of the best in the world after Smith and Perenara. Although, he can be pretty awful too. When the team is set up right, in an attacking way and he's providing quick ball, he is a cut above. Other times he's nowhere, hence he was benched by possibly the slowest and most ordinary scrum half I've seen, Ross Cronje. His box kicking is pretty **** too. Maybe I've just been spoilt with Fourie du Preez whom could do everything at a world class level. Definitely prefer Faf to Hougaard and think the move has given him something extra. Same with Willie, he was quite good today, was really poor in his last few years in South Africa, but seems to have gotten a bit of confidence back. I think there's a bit less pressure playing abroad.

AHEM - Conor Murray

[Zapater]

AHEM - Conor Murray

He isn't bad at Mickey Mouse rugby in the north but would get exposed in the southern hemisphere.

Genia is also a brilliant player, although he isn't what he was 5 years ago. He isn't over the hill though, just think it's the instability of the Australian team. Him and Cooper together for the Reds and internationally were unplayable when they were both on form. They were probably the best 9-10 combination in the world at the time.

[Irishnev]

He isn't bad at Mickey Mouse rugby in the north but would get exposed in the southern hemisphere.

Genia is also a brilliant player, although he isn't what he was 5 years ago. He isn't over the hill though, just think it's the instability of the Australian team. Him and Cooper together for the Reds and internationally were unplayable when they were both on form. They were probably the best 9-10 combination in the world at the time.

that is all

(Agree about Genia and QC though )

[Zapater]

You didn't take the bait, as I was hoping

In all seriousness though, there is clearly a difference in levels and speed of game.

Without going into too much detail if you use the yardstick of mediocre players in Super Rugby being top international players (CJ Standere), up and down/erratic players turning into world beaters (Ruan Pienaar/Gareth Anscombe), ancient players being able to cash in on their careers in old age and able to be among better players in the team. Even the desperation for England to get Brad Shields in says a lot.

In reverse; there haven't been too many examples, but Danny Cipriani was fairly awful in Super Rugby, although we know he has temperament issues, so maybe no the fairest comparison. A lot of the Jaguares players were established in Europe and they haven't done much in Super Rugby, also worth noting they (not much different between Super Rugby and international teams) often do relatively well in World Cups. Huw Jones owes South Africa everything, he even said himself that the development at the Stomers is the reason he's the player he is. Would have been hilarious if he naturalised and played for the Boks after every sportsman that has been poached away from South Africa in the last 60 years or so.

[Irishnev]

You didn't take the bait, as I was hoping

In all seriousness though, there is clearly a difference in levels and speed of game.

Without going into too much detail if you use the yardstick of mediocre players in Super Rugby being top international players (CJ Standere), up and down/erratic players turning into world beaters (Ruan Pienaar/Gareth Anscombe), ancient players being able to cash in on their careers in old age and able to be among better players in the team. Even the desperation for England to get Brad Shields in says a lot.

In reverse; there haven't been too many examples, but Danny Cipriani was fairly awful in Super Rugby, although we know he has temperament issues, so maybe no the fairest comparison. A lot of the Jaguares players were established in Europe and they haven't done much in Super Rugby, also worth noting they (not much different between Super Rugby and international teams) often do relatively well in World Cups. Huw Jones owes South Africa everything, he even said himself that the development at the Stomers is the reason he's the player he is. Would have been hilarious if he naturalised and played for the Boks after every sportsman that has been poached away from South Africa in the last 60 years or so.

Zap it’s late so I can’t put together such a detailed argument as you have. Ireland are ranked 2 in the world, just beat Australia over a 3 game series, recently beat the All Blacks - Murray was pivotal to all of that play a key player in the Lions test side who drew with NZ.

In terms of standard - NZ are a level ahead of the rest and although you beat them if Barrett could’ve kicked you’d have lost. We are lucky that we get to see super rugby and all the Southern Hemisphere tests so I know how good the rest are but again NZ provincial sides are leagues ahead with the rules changed to stop them dominating. Ireland have beaten your lot this side of the world with regularity and lost a 3 game series down there with half a side a couple of years ago.

CJ was too ‘small’, typical small minded Africaans mentality yet he bossed your lot in a recent test and been superb for Munster and Ireland. I don’t really care about the English players but if you are going to talk down IRISH players then you need to be put right.

Faf looks a busy scrum half but he has a way to go to meet the standard set by Pienaar, Joost and others. I look forward to him getting a chance to have a crack off Murray and we’ll see

[Buzzo]

You didn't take the bait, as I was hoping

In all seriousness though, there is clearly a difference in levels and speed of game.

Without going into too much detail if you use the yardstick of mediocre players in Super Rugby being top international players (CJ Standere), up and down/erratic players turning into world beaters (Ruan Pienaar/Gareth Anscombe), ancient players being able to cash in on their careers in old age and able to be among better players in the team. Even the desperation for England to get Brad Shields in says a lot.

In reverse; there haven't been too many examples, but Danny Cipriani was fairly awful in Super Rugby, although we know he has temperament issues, so maybe no the fairest comparison. A lot of the Jaguares players were established in Europe and they haven't done much in Super Rugby, also worth noting they (not much different between Super Rugby and international teams) often do relatively well in World Cups. Huw Jones owes South Africa everything, he even said himself that the development at the Stomers is the reason he's the player he is. Would have been hilarious if he naturalised and played for the Boks after every sportsman that has been poached away from South Africa in the last 60 years or so.

I actually watched Glasgow Warriors play the Cheetahs tonight in the Pro 14. Huw Jones made his comeback after injury in that game. He was actually only discovered when a Scotland Scout was watching a Stormers match and saw a saltire next to one of the players names. He wasn't on the radar until that point, Jones has said though he only ever wanted to play for Scotland.

He's a phenomena at centre, has an unerring knack of picking the right line. Runs decent support and has an ability to cross the line.

Not many brits have made successful careers in other country in many sports, so I am not sure you can right of the quality that simply.

We play you lot this autumn, and it will be interesting to compare notes afterwards

[Zapater]

Zap it’s late so I can’t put together such a detailed argument as you have. Ireland are ranked 2 in the world, just beat Australia over a 3 game series, recently beat the All Blacks - Murray was pivotal to all of that play a key player in the Lions test side who drew with NZ.

In terms of standard - NZ are a level ahead of the rest and although you beat them if Barrett could’ve kicked you’d have lost. We are lucky that we get to see super rugby and all the Southern Hemisphere tests so I know how good the rest are but again NZ provincial sides are leagues ahead with the rules changed to stop them dominating. Ireland have beaten your lot this side of the world with regularity and lost a 3 game series down there with half a side a couple of years ago.

CJ was too ‘small’, typical small minded Africaans mentality yet he bossed your lot in a recent test and been superb for Munster and Ireland. I don’t really care about the English players but if you are going to talk down IRISH players then you need to be put right.

Faf looks a busy scrum half but he has a way to go to meet the standard set by Pienaar, Joost and others. I look forward to him getting a chance to have a crack off Murray and we’ll see

Fair enough, I was mainly trying to get a reaction. Obviously NZ is miles ahead of the rest, but Super Rugby is a gruelling schedule and the quality of play is generally quite good. But yes; generally there are 2 or 3 competitive teams from each country, but in recent years only the Lions can keep up with the NZ teams (obviously excluding the Blues who are dreadful)

Joost and du Preez were a class of their own, Justin Marshall and George Gregan too. I don't really rate Faf too highly. As I said, he's inconsistent and needs the teams style to reflect his play. On song, one of the better players though. I think Pienaar has diabolical temperament despite being a classy player, so never thought much of him at international level. No doubt Murray is a very good player, he was immense in that Lions series.

The current Bok team is fairly diabolical. There are some good players, but the performances have been woeful. Heynecke Meyer started the downward spiral and Allister Coetzee continued it. Regardless, I still believe the quality of player in general and pedigree is far better than what is in the 6 nations.

I'm not really one for rankings, but when you consider that in the last few years at home with a team in turmoil (which lost to Japan in the WC) beat Wales, France, Ireland and England it says something.

I actually watched Glasgow Warriors play the Cheetahs tonight in the Pro 14. Huw Jones made his comeback after injury in that game. He was actually only discovered when a Scotland Scout was watching a Stormers match and saw a saltire next to one of the players names. He wasn't on the radar until that point, Jones has said though he only ever wanted to play for Scotland.

He's a phenomena at centre, has an unerring knack of picking the right line. Runs decent support and has an ability to cross the line.

Not many brits have made successful careers in other country in many sports, so I am not sure you can right of the quality that simply.

We play you lot this autumn, and it will be interesting to compare notes afterwards

It was spoken about at one point, he said that he didn't feel South African, so fair enough. Would have been eligible this year if he wasn't capped. Head and shoulders above the centres in SA. Probably for the best though, as it probably would have caused a political mutiny here anyway.

[Irishnev]

Zebo and Russell teaming up well Buzzo - a Celtic connection

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[Buzzo]

I missed this.

Yeah, seems like both Russell and Zebo have hit the ground running. The style of play in the French game will definitely suit Finn.

I watched the Edinburgh Benneton game on Friday night and the Warriors v Dragons on Sat. The standard of play in the Pro14 is really high. The Italian teams are improving as are the Chiefs meaning both SA teams look a bit more competitive.

It will be interesting to see how this translates in the Champions Cup.

Saracens look a mighty force as usual, so be good to see how an up and down Glasgow go against them. Could be a thrashing, but if Glasgow get enough broken play ball they can also do some damage.

[Irishnev]

Lazy but some defence at the same time

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