The Rugby Thread

[Cormack74]

I wondered how England would approach this game and to be honest I didn’t think they would fail so badly in the physicality stakes. Once they started to force the game they were done.....some of the handling errors were very uncharacteristic.

Lack of clear thought as I mentioned above mate.

They were thinking about B C and D before they had accomplished A.

I'm not sure it was down the the occasion - loads of those guys have played in Premiership finals and won the EC; just one of those days I think.

It's disappointing though after showing the level they could achieve last week.

And if there's something else to take from this, England need to be playing the Southern hemisphere teams more often, especially NZ - I think there have only been 2 matches against them in 6 years. Although where you fit those games in I have no idea.

[Buzzo]

Given the scrum dominance and Pollards accuracy, the handling errors were costing 3 points.

It is huge for SA. When you consider the journey of the country and the history of Rugby within SA to see Kolisi lift the trophy is quite something to witness. He is a great man.

I agree on the Rugby World Championships perhaps getting teams better prepared for the crucial moments in a WC Final. But, if you have the north and south playing each other too much then you lose the uniqueness of the actual tournament.

[Zapater]

So sloshed, just got home and ate for the first time today. Haven't boozed it up since early morning without eating like that for ages. It's madness, actually chaos on the streets.

Glad Mane pulled it out of the bag because I would have been bleak as **** if we had dropped points.

In everything, overheard lots of complaints about our cricket team. Bavuma and de Bruyn's names were ringing out after the final whistle. Guess if you're a nation defined by nothing but sports, ultimate domination or nothing.

Still maintain it's between us and England 03 (no offence, Australia donated that, they were way better on paper) for the worst ever winners. The forwards are animals, but the overall team is quite ordinary. So glad we didn't need to play NZ, I'm 90% sure they'd have steam rolled us. In boxing we say 'styles make fights', think this was something similar.

Top job Rassie, top job. I don't think people internationally realise how quick the turnaround was. This teams could hardly win home tests a year ago.

It is huge for SA. When you consider the journey of the country and the history of Rugby within SA to see Kolisi lift the trophy is quite something to witness. He is a great man.

Think this is the most important victory, the other 2, things were on the up, this time we're going down the tube. This is one for the masses. From both sporting and general perspective, the vibe of the country has been so good the last week. Almost everyone who can (including myself in all probability) is getting the **** out and this is a small reminder that we're not dictated by our economy. As good as this is for the likes of me, the positivity serves those who are responsible for (re)building everything in all walks of life.

[Buzzo]

Enjoy it mate.

It was a great and deserved win. England were strong favourites, which makes it all the more impressive.

As we know in sport winning can be infrequent so if it happens enjoy it as much as you can.

[labourRed]

Given the scrum dominance and Pollards accuracy, the handling errors were costing 3 points.

It is huge for SA. When you consider the journey of the country and the history of Rugby within SA to see Kolisi lift the trophy is quite something to witness. He is a great man.

I agree on the Rugby World Championships perhaps getting teams better prepared for the crucial moments in a WC Final. But, if you have the north and south playing each other too much then you lose the uniqueness of the actual tournament.

Absolutely. And fair play to them. My missus was crying her eyes out at the final whistle. SA as a country needed this much more than England. It won't solve their problems but will inject a bit of much needed fun and hopefully unity.

Kolisi will be fighting off film rights tomorrow.

[Cormack74]

Still maintain it's between us and England 03 (no offence, Australia donated that, they were way better on paper) for the worst ever winners.

Well done today but that's just bollocks I'm afraid

England went into that game having won 37 out of their previous 39 games including beating NZ away for the first time in 30 years.

They won the final against the holders in their own back yard.

To suggest that the Australians coughed up the game when it wouldn't even have gone to extra time had it not been a fairly questionable call from a SA referee says to me either you weren't watching very closely or your memory hasn't lasted terribly well this past 16 years

[Zapater]

Saw some highlights this morning, had no idea how ridiculously good Kolbe's try was. He had no right to score that.

Well done today but that's just bollocks I'm afraid

England went into that game having won 37 out of their previous 39 games including beating NZ away for the first time in 30 years.

They won the final against the holders in their own back yard.

To suggest that the Australians coughed up the game when it wouldn't even have gone to extra time had it not been a fairly questionable call from a SA referee says to me either you weren't watching very closely or your memory hasn't lasted terribly well this past 16 years

I knew someone would take this the wrong way, maybe I could have worded it better. Any team that wins a World Cup is obviously very good and deserves it. Just comparing it with other teams from the history of the competition. I don't think I said anything derogatory about that English team, nor do I consider my comments about this South African team anything other. On the winning streak, by that logic, I could say this is the best Bok team or Southern Hem team of all time being the first dual Tri-Nations/Rugby Championship and WC champions, when they're obviously not.

Without going into great detail, England got onto the right side of the draw for the knockouts, avoiding the 'Big 3' (although SA were absolutely awful), allowing for an easier path. Obviously this was deserved by beating SA in the group.

Maybe it's a Southern Hemisphere lack of knowledge or disrespect for Northern Hem stuff, but when I look over that Australian team, I see great Wallabies who were amongst the better players to play in their positions rather than how the final itself unfolded. Having beaten the All Blacks should have gone to take it at home. Larkham, Smith, Mortlock, Tequiri, Waugh, Greegan and others that I'm probably forgetting about are all time top players. On paper, I don't hold the English equivalents to the same calibre.

I remember the night quite well, was celebrating my 17th birthday I think and a few of my friends came over to watch it.

Absolutely. And fair play to them. My missus was crying her eyes out at the final whistle. SA as a country needed this much more than England. It won't solve their problems but will inject a bit of much needed fun and hopefully unity.

Kolisi will be fighting off film rights tomorrow.

Is she from here? The Kolisi story is warming hearts all over the world, even outside of sports. I know that black people here were furious with Barnes' article which said that he shouldn't be starting and Flouw should be in ahead of him. I shy away from politics and kind of get his perspective as Siya doesn't exactly have his skillset, but in SA you can't say things like that publicly.

Enjoy it mate.

It was a great and deserved win. England were strong favourites, which makes it all the more impressive.

As we know in sport winning can be infrequent so if it happens enjoy it as much as you can.

I'll take every 12 years Having said that, with this brand of rugby and the team being quite young, the next WC wouldn't be out of the question depending on who the new coach is. I suspect it'll be Johan Ackermann. I don't see any other natural choice unless they go for a foreign coach. Looking forward to a break from rugby and then getting into the Lions tour.

[Cormack74]

Zapater


I knew someone would take this the wrong way, maybe I could have worded it better.

I didn't take it the wrong way. I understand what you're saying but it's drivel

I gave you the England stats for 3 years of games prior to the WC final 2003.

Here are some of SA's results from the 14 months prior to them winning the WC in 2007 (I can't be bothered to go back further or post them in their entirety - anyway there's no point).

South Africa 21 - 26 New Zealand
New Zealand 33 - 6 South Africa
Australia 25 - 17 South Africa
Australia 20 - 18 South Africa
Australia 49 - 0 South Africa
Ireland 32 - 15 South Africa
England 23 - 21 South Africa
New Zealand 35 - 17 South Africa
South Africa 26 - 45 New Zealand

So fair enough overall SA were playing better opposition than England but the fact is they were losing on a regular basis.

I'm pretty sure if you're looking for worst ever WC winners they would be up there.

And I'm not having a go at SA. If I could be remotely bothered to look at some of the other winners the pattern might be repeated (albeit not for NZ most likely).

Of course all these things are subjective, but to claim England's 2003 team was one of the poorest WC winners is just odd. You mentioned some decent Aussie players but England had the best pack in the world bar none and the best 10 to create field position for them.

By no means did they play the prettiest rugby but if you were backing a team to come through in a must win game against any side from any era they would be near the top IMO.

[Zapater]

I didn't take it the wrong way. I understand what you're saying but it's drivel

I gave you the England stats for 3 years of games prior to the WC final 2003.

Here are some of SA's results from the 14 months prior to them winning the WC in 2007 (I can't be bothered to go back further or post them in their entirety - anyway there's no point).

South Africa 21 - 26 New Zealand
New Zealand 33 - 6 South Africa
Australia 25 - 17 South Africa
Australia 20 - 18 South Africa
Australia 49 - 0 South Africa
Ireland 32 - 15 South Africa
England 23 - 21 South Africa
New Zealand 35 - 17 South Africa
South Africa 26 - 45 New Zealand

So fair enough overall SA were playing better opposition than England but the fact is they were losing on a regular basis.

I'm pretty sure if you're looking for worst ever WC winners they would be up there.

And I'm not having a go at SA. If I could be remotely bothered to look at some of the other winners the pattern might be repeated (albeit not for NZ most likely).

Of course all these things are subjective, but to claim England's 2003 team was one of the poorest WC winners is just odd. You mentioned some decent Aussie players but England had the best pack in the world bar none and the best 10 to create field position for them.

By no means did they play the prettiest rugby but if you were backing a team to come through in a must win game against any side from any era they would be near the top IMO.

Now that's drivel!

That 07 team came into its own at the right time. Tri-nations between 04 and 2011 was out of this world. Laid the foundation for the 09 Tri-Nations win and the victory over the Lions, which were probably the best SA teams of recent history. So looking forward, rather than backwards, the momentum is immeasurable.

Talk about packs - they were up there with the best. One of the best modern day second rows, great flanks, great midfield (without Jean de Villiers), outstanding fullback, wing and scrummie. Weakest player in the team was probably Butch James, who I am a fan of, but a better fly half would have made them untouchable.

We'll agree to disagree. It's an irrelevant question and unnecessarily digging up ancient history.

[Cormack74]

Now that's drivel!

That 07 team came into its own at the right time. Tri-nations between 04 and 2011 was out of this world. Laid the foundation for the 09 Tri-Nations win and the victory over the Lions, which were probably the best SA teams of recent history. So looking forward, rather than backwards, the momentum is immeasurable.

Talk about packs - they were up there with the best. One of the best modern day second rows, great flanks, great midfield (without Jean de Villiers), outstanding fullback, wing and scrummie. Weakest player in the team was probably Butch James, who I am a fan of, but a better fly half would have made them untouchable.

We'll agree to disagree. It's an irrelevant question and unnecessarily digging up ancient history.

The record books don't lie; it's fact mate. And I dug up "ancient history" to compare the respective records of teams going into a WC.

England were the best team in the World for about 18 months going into the 2003 final and SA for about a week going into the 2007 final. There's really no comparison between the two

The point is (as I said in my last post) it's a subjective discussion. Happy to agree to disagree but just reminding you that you started it

[Irishnev]

I see Munster have signed De Allende and Snyman fir the 2020 season - De Allende in particular will add to the back line

[Zapater]

Snyman is awesome and will be a huge boost, can be a bit stupid but a real quality player. One of those that came out of nowhere really. Don't think people out of SA know how good he is.

If you go through this thread, I've spent the last 2 years slating de Allende as **** and I still don't rate him. He had a great world cup though. His defence has improved and looks like more of a team player. As I've previously said, would like to see him play at outside centre, think his attributes would suit that set up better. If he can fit in, he'll do well, definitely a powerful runner.

[Buzzo]

[ame]https://twitter.com/owswills/status/1191124813651357697[/ame]

[Buzzo]

Tough season ahead for Sarries

[ame]https://twitter.com/bbcsport/status/1191671447896428544[/ame]

[Buzzo]

12th position -26 points.

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