The Rugby Thread

[Buzzo]

Back down to earth.

Felt like a harsh red. Cant put in more effort.

The Welsh wing is outstanding.

[Buzzo]

Sport can do one today.

[Irishnev]

Sport can do one today.

Like me last Sunday - hello darkness my old friend

[Buzzo]

Both teams today, played well and lost.

Massive boost for Wales to play for most of the tournament against 14. Looked like a yellow to me. Looked as if the TMO was offering the ref the opportunity to give a yellow.

[Buzzo]

The luck of the... Welsh.

[ame]https://twitter.com/optajonny/status/1360653224261394433[/ame]

[Cormack74]

So yesterday FWIW (part 1 )

England did ok, played more positive rugby and had 10x the energy with Sinckler back and Cowan-Dickie starting. Jamie George is an exceptional hooker but it was clear from the Scotland game that he's woefully short of match practice. His line out numbers are insane so the fact the Scots were stealing throws was clear evidence that he wasn't ready to start.

C-D by comparison is more of a gamble on the throwing side but when he gets it right (as he did) the rest of his game brings unbelievable intensity to any team.

Billy V is still looking off the pace though, it looks like a good time to bring back Hughes or Simmonds or give Dombrandt a try out. In fact Italy would have been the game to do it. I'm not a huge fan of Ben Earl - he has nothing the other two don't so I really don't get why he's in EJ's good books and the others aren't?

I'm not a fan of Ford either but he was ok to be fair whilst Farrell brings nothing at 12, missed kicks at goal and almost got carded (again). With Saracens without game time EJ could usefully have used this 6N to have stood Farrell down or at least stood him down as a starter and as Captain for a bit. Another trick missed.

Robson should be starting ahead of Ben Youngs now too. Youngs has done terrific service but he has more bad and average games than good ones these days and Ben Spencer's continued absence is another complete and utter mystery. I almost wonder if EJ just picks the guys he likes?

Italy were disappointing for me. Yes it was good to see them play positive rugby (again) but last week they had fantastic intensity and although they ended up well beaten their stats in lots of areas were really good. They just let themselves down with imprecision.

Not sure how we will go against Wales. EJ has 2 weeks to think about it and I'd hope he uses it wisely but on recent evidence he may not . . .

[Cormack74]

And so to part 2.

As a neutral Sco v Wal was really enjoyable. I do find it a little weird though that 2 teams who looked so bereft of attacking ability in the Autumn both now look so potent.

Ali P actually did ok this week (not sure if it's just the 'one swallow' thing but anyway ) and his chip through for the try was a clever piece of play.

Scotland seem much more at home with their game plan and at times their phases were as good as you'll see. Even after ZF's sending off they looked like a top rugby team with belief in what they were doing and how they were doing it. Not sure if that's all come from the one game against England or a general evolution and backed up by guys like Hogg and Gray playing for a top team now?

The sending off was obviously pivotal or at least appeared to be although the penalty at the very end could have gone either way. At least it appeared that way. A camera angle from the other side would have been far more useful in determining it.

The sending off was a bit 50:50 although on balance probably the right call if the IRB want to be consistent in the message they send out. It certainly ticked the the Law 9.20 rule boxes as a sending off offence.

I've always though ZF is a bit prone to entering rucks recklessly and there was just no point to what he did - even if he hadn't connected with WJ. I agree Karl Dickson did offer a word of caution (a bit ironic for anyone who has ever seen Karl Dickson referee ) but what probably didn't help the cause was the fact that Jones fell back clutching his head.

Anyhow it makes the 6N more interesting (I know that won't make you feel any happier Buzzo), they'll just need to go and get a result in France which I think they're actually capable of if they stick to what they've done well so far.

[Cormack74]

Forgot Billy B was starting today Nev.

Maybe he'll prove me wrong but I'm struggling to see it.

Surely Paddy J has done his time now and can be recalled. He's been absolutely brilliant for LI this season.

[Irishnev]

Forgot Billy B was starting today Nev.

Maybe he'll prove me wrong but I'm struggling to see it.

Surely Paddy J has done his time now and can be recalled. He's been absolutely brilliant for LI this season.

He is **** and way out of his depth - need I say more

[Buzzo]

So yesterday FWIW (part 1 )

England did ok, played more positive rugby and had 10x the energy with Sinckler back and Cowan-Dickie starting. Jamie George is an exceptional hooker but it was clear from the Scotland game that he's woefully short of match practice. His line out numbers are insane so the fact the Scots were stealing throws was clear evidence that he wasn't ready to start.

C-D by comparison is more of a gamble on the throwing side but when he gets it right (as he did) the rest of his game brings unbelievable intensity to any team.

Billy V is still looking off the pace though, it looks like a good time to bring back Hughes or Simmonds or give Dombrandt a try out. In fact Italy would have been the game to do it. I'm not a huge fan of Ben Earl - he has nothing the other two don't so I really don't get why he's in EJ's good books and the others aren't?

I'm not a fan of Ford either but he was ok to be fair whilst Farrell brings nothing at 12, missed kicks at goal and almost got carded (again). With Saracens without game time EJ could usefully have used this 6N to have stood Farrell down or at least stood him down as a starter and as Captain for a bit. Another trick missed.

Robson should be starting ahead of Ben Youngs now too. Youngs has done terrific service but he has more bad and average games than good ones these days and Ben Spencer's continued absence is another complete and utter mystery. I almost wonder if EJ just picks the guys he likes?

Italy were disappointing for me. Yes it was good to see them play positive rugby (again) but last week they had fantastic intensity and although they ended up well beaten their stats in lots of areas were really good. They just let themselves down with imprecision.

Not sure how we will go against Wales. EJ has 2 weeks to think about it and I'd hope he uses it wisely but on recent evidence he may not . . .

Yeah, that is a really fair assessment. I didnt watch all of the game, but it felt like an opportunity missed for England. Farrell is becoming an issue for England. He slows everything down at 12 you feel a better distributor (more imaginative?) would unleash the backs. And at 10, again he just feels a bit predictable. He is however one of the luckiest players around and his tackling is on the edge. Off the top of my head I can think of 4-5 times he has been lucky to evade a yellow or red.

I just cant believe both Simmonds at Exeter aren't in the squad. They have been immense for years.

Robson seems a lively 9, and as you say Youngs has been a great servant but again is almost programed into that England way of playing as opposed to playing what is infront of him. Englands back 3 deserve more ball.

I dont think anything has been proven yesterday, it was a comfortable win against a team that at the very least should be being beaten comfortably. The Wales match will be interesting. Are Wales all that good? I dont think we know yet.

Itay are a busted flush, they are miles off it, either bring in relegation or go back to 5 nations. It looks incredibly competitive between the other 5 this season which makes Italy stick out even more.

[Buzzo]

And so to part 2.

As a neutral Sco v Wal was really enjoyable. I do find it a little weird though that 2 teams who looked so bereft of attacking ability in the Autumn both now look so potent.

Ali P actually did ok this week (not sure if it's just the 'one swallow' thing but anyway ) and his chip through for the try was a clever piece of play.

Scotland seem much more at home with their game plan and at times their phases were as good as you'll see. Even after ZF's sending off they looked like a top rugby team with belief in what they were doing and how they were doing it. Not sure if that's all come from the one game against England or a general evolution and backed up by guys like Hogg and Gray playing for a top team now?

The sending off was obviously pivotal or at least appeared to be although the penalty at the very end could have gone either way. At least it appeared that way. A camera angle from the other side would have been far more useful in determining it.

The sending off was a bit 50:50 although on balance probably the right call if the IRB want to be consistent in the message they send out. It certainly ticked the the Law 9.20 rule boxes as a sending off offence.

I've always though ZF is a bit prone to entering rucks recklessly and there was just no point to what he did - even if he hadn't connected with WJ. I agree Karl Dickson did offer a word of caution (a bit ironic for anyone who has ever seen Karl Dickson referee ) but what probably didn't help the cause was the fact that Jones fell back clutching his head.

Anyhow it makes the 6N more interesting (I know that won't make you feel any happier Buzzo), they'll just need to go and get a result in France which I think they're actually capable of if they stick to what they've done well so far.

Yeah, that is pretty fair also. We were good,, Wales stayed in the game. The try before half time for them was massive.

The sending off changed the game, I think we would have won without it, and came very close anyway. I felt it was a bit harsh. Jones lifted his head just as Fagerson hit, which made it look worse. I think the thing that worked against Fagerson was how far he came in from, but I must admit it looked like a yellow to me. If these are going to get given as reds, we will start to see a lot more reds given, or a fundamental change to clear outs and rucks (which is I suppose the intention).

If that was a red, then Darcy Graham was taken out in the air by 1/2p and Williams was lucky with some leading elbows.

Scotland wise, I think we are seeing an evolution. The realisation after the World Cup was that we cant just play teams off the pitch throwing the ball around. Our kicking has improved immesurably, meaning we are playing with the ball in the right areas. We do have more strength indepth, but you could see the gaps yesterday. Jamie Ritchie was a big miss the step down from him to Blade Thomson was massive, then he went off and Gary Graham came on with top billing and gave away continual pens. I wonder what has happened to Sam Skinner? He can fill in on the back row. Our line out was exceptional against England and was back to mediocre yesterday.

We look so powerful though, and I hope we can keep this level of focus and control. It was a sore defeat, mainly because we played really well. Hogg is playing as well as he ever has, and the forwards are giving the backs good ball (Price was great!) Russell is playing smart Rugby and his kicking game is immense.

It should be a good game vs the French. Just watching the game vs Ireland and it was very scruffy in the last 20. A lot off effort going in though. France look great, but, there will be opportunities. And, are they an 80 minute team?

Could be similar to Twickenham and the lack of crowd could help us. Dupont is immense though, I love watching him play.

[Buzzo]

Not sure if that's all come from the one game against England or a general evolution and backed up by guys like Hogg and Gray playing for a top team now?

No doubt this has been huge. Both players have improved from a pretty impressive starting point.

[Cormack74]

. If these are going to get given as reds, we will start to see a lot more reds given, or a fundamental change to clear outs and rucks (which is I suppose the intention).

Well I think that's basically it - certainly when they came back from lockdown at the end of last season in the Premiership the refereeing of the ruck was far more stringent. It's become a little bit more lax as the weeks have passed but sending offs for that type of offence are not uncommon.

Leaving aside that I've seen ZF enter rucks a bit too keenly in the past, I think given the analysis that International sides do these days, it would have been naive by GT etc not to have spoken to the Scottish players about ruck safety / refereeing in the build up. Anyone who's watched a few Prem' games would have made the same point that I've just done.


Gary Graham came on with top billing and gave away continual pens. I wonder what has happened to Sam Skinner? He can fill in on the back row. Our line out was exceptional against England and was back to mediocre yesterday.

GG was excellent for about half a season a couple of years back when England also got interested IIRC but broadly he's pretty average IMO. I'm not too sad he opted for Scotland Personally I'd go for SS every time. Never flamboyant but always 7 or 8 out of 10 and solid.

It should be a good game vs the French. Just watching the game vs Ireland and it was very scruffy in the last 20. A lot off effort going in though. France look great, but, there will be opportunities. And, are they an 80 minute team?

Got to move their bigs lads around IMO. Defensively they're good but equally you know exactly how they will defend under Sean Edwards. I didn't think Ireland had spent enough time thinking about their attack lines today and they let France defend out to in exactly the way they wanted to

Could be similar to Twickenham and the lack of crowd could help us. Dupont is immense though, I love watching him play.

Agreed SDF empty is a lot different to full I should imagine. There may not have been an opportunity like this for quite a long time - if ever. Scotland just need to remember what they are good at and not get flustered when France do something outrageous which they no doubt will at some point.

[Cormack74]

I read this yesterday then forgot about it

But I've popped down here because I thought you would have been all over it Mr Buzzworth

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56092322

Scotland prop Zander Fagerson will miss the rest of the Six Nations following his red card against Wales.

Fagerson was punished for a dangerous clearout after his shoulder connected with Wyn Jones' head at the breakdown and has been banned for four weeks.

Scotland lost 25-24, having led by two points when he was sent off.

The 25-year-old - likely to be in coach Warren Gatland's thoughts for the British and Irish Lions - misses games against France, Ireland and Italy.

An independent disciplinary committee deemed the foul play warranted a mid-range entry point - a six-week suspension - but reduced that by two weeks to account for mitigating factors, including his admission of foul play and a good disciplinary record.

Fagerson has the right to appeal.

[Buzzo]

I saw that. It’s a tough one, but in the spirit of the new law I guess he can have no complaints. I think it was soft, but he ran in from so far away he gave the ref a decision to make. If he’s stopped or made more of an effort to wrap his arm he might have gotten away with it. We can’t all be immune to red cards like Owen Farrell.

I listened to the Rugby Pod with Jim Hamilton and Andy Goode and they covered all aspects of the six n’s including this really well. They also covered how unfortunate Italy were with decisions (Farrell, the fact Daly’s try shouldn’t have stood etc). It’s a good listen.

You should check it out

https://play.acast.com/s/therugbypod/episode25-nozammit-noparty-