F1 Thread

[RichC]

Max was told to cede the position at corner 22. He decided to slow and let Lewis pass on corner 27, just before the DRS zone. Lewis didn’t want to go along with such ****house tactics and slowed, then Max forced the issue and hit the brakes, causing a collision.

I’m not a flag waving Hamilton fan by any means, but I absolutely do not like Verstappen, he’s a genuinely dangerous driver and weak sanctions throughout this career have encouraged his behaviour, when they should be doing the opposite for the safety of all concerned.

It sounds like teams won't be able to talk directly to the race director next season which I think is a good thing.

That being said the race director should be someone other than Massi

[Scratch]

I’m not a flag waving Hamilton fan by any means, but I absolutely do not like Verstappen, he’s a genuinely dangerous driver and weak sanctions throughout this career have encouraged his behaviour, when they should be doing the opposite for the safety of all concerned.

The same allegations of recklessness and endangerment were thrown at Lewis as well in his early F1 years. The fearlessness of youth.

I'm still waiting on a Seb Vettel revival, then I can flag wave again!

[Oberon]

I also still don't see what peoples problem is with them letting the back markers move out the way. It wasn't robbery FFS. Hamilton still had front position and opportunity to pass once he got overtaken. He was unlucky, finally, when all the luck had been with him the rest of the way.

The problem with letting some of the cars through and not others is that it did not treat all drivers on the grid equally. Sainz could have had a shot at the win, all those lapped cars not allowed through were denied a shot at moving up.

Then there's this quote "There's a requirement in the sporting regulations to wave all the lapped cars past"
Michael Masi, October 2020

I think both drivers had their share of leniency from the stewards this year and on the whole it balanced out, right up until Latifi crashed... Only one driver benefited from the subsequent decisions

[S-RED]

The problem with letting some of the cars through and not others is that it did not treat all drivers on the grid equally. Sainz could have had a shot at the win, all those lapped cars not allowed through were denied a shot at moving up.

Equally due to where they were on the track Max could get in the pits & maintain position, whereas Lewis would have lost position under the yellow flag & was then asked to get involved in a 1 lap shoot out on 45 lap tyres at a moments notice. the whole thing is a shambles & Masi should feel very stupid & put simply incompetent with his handling of this race.

[chadrtc]

There’s a good video with all the unedited pit wall discussions with all drivers during the safety car. It shows what an absolute dangerous cluster**** the whole thing was. The flag went green to restart before everyone had been told what was happening.

Unfortunately, this is going to roll on for months now and could well end up in front of CAS if the FIA can’t come to some sort of agreement with Mercedes. There is a legitimate case to answer here based on the FIA’s own regulations, which contradict themselves within two paragraphs.

[S-RED]

There’s a good video with all the unedited pit wall discussions with all drivers during the safety car. It shows what an absolute dangerous cluster**** the whole thing was. The flag went green to restart before everyone had been told what was happening.

Unfortunately, this is going to roll on for months now and could well end up in front of CAS if the FIA can’t come to some sort of agreement with Mercedes. There is a legitimate case to answer here based on the FIA’s own regulations, which contradict themselves within two paragraphs.

Link please

[chadrtc]

Sorry - I had to go a hunting, but I’ve found it.

[ame="https://youtu.be/K469WuoDJTw"]"Some" Cars Allowed To Unlap Themselves, While Others Were Not | F1 2021 Abu Dhabi GP - YouTube[/ame]

[ChesterDave]

So basically everyone was expecting the cars to be allowed through. Yeah, only allowing some screwed people chasing for position down the field but had no bearing on the Lewis/Max battle as everyone expected them to unlap themselves. So the only question would be how fixed within the rules is it that the SC needs to do an entire circuit after the cars unlap themselves?

[Kenneth]

only allowing some screwed people chasing for position down the field but had no bearing on the Lewis/Max battle as everyone expected them to unlap themselves.

Wat?

[ChesterDave]

Allowing lapped to un-lap themselves was what everyone expected would be the case listening to those transmissions so the fact the cars between Max and Lewis were allowed to pass shouldn't be an issue. The hard done to cars in that scenario were the next batch between Max and the whoever was in 3rd place as they could no longer chase the cars that were allowed to unlap themselves. If all cars had gone through then Max would still have overtaken Lewis.

[chadrtc]

Allowing lapped to un-lap themselves was what everyone expected would be the case listening to those transmissions so the fact the cars between Max and Lewis were allowed to pass shouldn't be an issue. The hard done to cars in that scenario were the next batch between Max and the whoever was in 3rd place as they could no longer chase the cars that were allowed to unlap themselves. If all cars had gone through then Max would still have overtaken Lewis.

If all the cars were let through, there would have been no time for the final lap. So the race would have finished behind the safety car and Hamilton would be the champion. That’s the point.

The rules were changed on the spot to favour a single driver - Verstappen. Literally every other car in the field ended up at a disadvantage as a result. The other cars who should have been able to unlap themselves, couldn’t. Sainz, who should have been able to have a run at Verstappen couldn’t because he had lapped cars still between him and Verstappen. Either all the lapped cars are let through, or none are… those were the two options according to the sporting regulations.

It’s screwy as ****, and this evenings announcement from the FIA basically admits as much. I’m not saying it was deliberately contrived to give Max the championship… but it was clearly an absolute made up on the spot cluster**** that has damaged the integrity of the sport.

[labourRed]

If all the cars were let through, there would have been no time for the final lap. So the race would have finished behind the safety car and Hamilton would be the champion. That’s the point.

The rules were changed on the spot to favour a single driver - Verstappen. Literally every other car in the field ended up at a disadvantage as a result. The other cars who should have been able to unlap themselves, couldn’t. Sainz, who should have been able to have a run at Verstappen couldn’t because he had lapped cars still between him and Verstappen. Either all the lapped cars are let through, or none are… those were the two options according to the sporting regulations.

It’s screwy as ****, and this evenings announcement from the FIA basically admits as much. I’m not saying it was deliberately contrived to give Max the championship… but it was clearly an absolute made up on the spot cluster**** that has damaged the integrity of the sport.

There is a general understanding to finish the race under green flags. Clearly there was only really two laps ish after the track was cleared ish. That wasn't enough time to clear all cars and Masi was under pressure from RB. A situation that will clearly not happen going forward.

[Yozza]

Mercedes will not pursue appeal against F1 title-deciding Abu Dhabi result

Mercedes have decided not to pursue their appeal against the results of the title-deciding Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

Their move follows a decision by governing body the FIA to conduct a "detailed analysis" of the end of the race and an admission it was "tarnishing" Formula 1's image.

Mercedes said they "welcomed" the move and would "hold the FIA accountable".

Max Verstappen's Red Bull overtook Lewis Hamilton's Mercedes on the last lap to clinch the drivers' title.

Mercedes had two protests rejected by F1 officials on Sunday, with the team arguing race director Michael Masi did not apply the rules correctly.

The Australian appeared not to follow standard protocol on restarting the race after a late-race safety-car period. His decisions left Hamilton, who had led for the vast majority of the race and was on course for the world title, as a sitting duck on old tyres, with Verstappen behind him on fresh rubber.

Mercedes had 96 hours after the race in which to lodge their appeal, which would have been heard by the FIA's International Court of Appeal, the final appeal tribunal for international motorsport.

Mercedes said they had been in "constructive dialogue" with the FIA since the race in an attempt to "create clarity for the future".

The team were satisfied with the decision to "thoroughly analyse what happened in Abu Dhabi and to improve the robustness of rules, governance and decision making in Formula 1".

In a lengthy statement, they said they "welcomed" the FIA inviting teams and drivers to take part in the investigation.

Mercedes also offered congratulations to Verstappen and Red Bull, adding: "We would like to express our sincere respect for your achievements this season. You made this F1 championship title fight truly epic."


Why have Mercedes stood down?

Mercedes said that they protested against the results of the race "because the safety car regulations were applied in a new way that affected the race result, after Lewis had been in a commanding lead and on course to win the World Championship".

Masi made two key decisions that appear to be against the rules.

He chose to allow only some of the lapped cars that were interspersed through the order past the leading cars.

He also did not follow the stipulations in the rules around the timing of the restart of the race once the lapped cars had been allowed through.

These decisions meant that not all drivers in the field were treated equally - Verstappen had a clear run at Hamilton, for example, but there were still lapped cars between the Dutchman and third-placed Carlos Sainz's Ferrari - and they ensured the safety car came in a lap earlier than it should have done according to the rules.

The race was restarted for one lap and the Dutchman passed Briton Hamilton to win the race and take the drivers' title.

The FIA initially defended Masi's decisions. The stewards, in rejecting Mercedes' protests on Sunday, claimed the next clause in the rules allowed Masi to do what he did, and cited a rule that gave him authority over the safety car.

But the FIA's decision to launch a review of the events of the race is an effective admission that mistakes were made.

The FIA's statement did not mention Masi, whose actions in the race are at the centre of the controversy. His future as race director is in doubt.


An intervention from Susie Wolff

Mercedes' announcement came an hour or so after Susie Wolff, wife of Mercedes F1 boss Toto Wolff and boss of the Venturi Formula E team, criticised the FIA in a strongly worded statement of her own.

Wolff said that the events in Abu Dhabi had left her "with a sick feeling".

She said Verstappen and Red Bull were "deserving winners and we always knew it was a strong possibility we may not win - but the way in which Lewis was robbed has left me in utter disbelief".

Wolff added: "The decision of one person within the governing body who applied a rule in a way which has never been done before in F1 singlehandedly decided the F1 drivers' championship.

"Rules are rules; they can't be changed on a whim by one individual at the end of a race."

She concluded: "I hope by March next year there is a governing body with sporting integrity and fairness at its core so I can fall back in love with F1."

[Buzzo]

This thread is just confirming to me that F1 remains ****. I used to love it…!

[Harv]

My god the sob stories coming out of Mercedes are laughable. They've had everything go their way season after season and now won't stop crying

Toto and Lewis refusing to go to the ceremony now, Toto's missus is even on it and now they're dangling the "we hope Lewis doesn't retire because of this" carrot.

The question they should be asking themselves, is if the shoe was on the other foot and they had been the ones benefitting, would they have said, " no, this is wrong, they've made the wrong decision, don't overtake him Lewis, its unfair to win like this"....like **** they would have Toto would've been on the phone screaming at Masi to get the lapped cars out the way.