Cricket

[Alex]

Pat Murphy was saying that George Dobell essentially broke an Embargo on that interview.

But he didnt and then promptly put Murphy in his place

[Alex]

Also.....'The Trott Camp'

Sounds like a load of blokes with gut rot

[Alex]

Trott has lost quite a bit of cred with me these last few days. Him saying he was worried about being called a 'Nutcase' because his 'illness' was being burnt out, really sticks in the throat. It really marginalises the people with actual problems. As his was basically down to a loss of form, from what I can see?

[Alex]

Michael Vaughan putting it loads better than me here.

London - Jonathan Trott's assertion that mental and physical fatigue had forced him home from England's Ashes tour of Australia rather than depression felt like a “con” and would only convince his team mates he had abandoned them, according to former England captain Michael Vaughan.

The 32-year-old Trott abruptly left the tour after the first test in Brisbane last November. Team officials cited a long-standing “stress-related illness” as the cause.

Trott, however, said in an interview in Britain on Sunday that he was not suffering from depression but had been “burnt out”.

“I feel a little bit conned we were told Jonathan Trott's problems in Australia were a stress-related illness he had suffered for years,” Vaughan wrote in his column in Monday's Daily Telegraph newspaper.

“We were allowed to believe he was struggling with a serious mental health issue and treated him with sensitivity and sympathy.

“He was obviously not in a great place but he was struggling for cricketing reasons and not mental, and there is a massive difference.”

Vaughan added that depression was a debilitating illness and for Trott to use terms like “crazy” or “nutcase” in his interview only disrespected those who suffered from it.

“I find it staggering he is so ill-informed that he used those words,” Vaughan wrote.

“I have friends who have been diagnosed with depression. They are not nutcases or crazy. They have picked up an illness that is invisible to others but can be debilitating.

“I do not think Trott realises just how important an issue it is.”

Former England all-rounder Andrew Flintoff openly discussed his battles with depression after he retired and also presented a documentary about the illness, speaking with other high-profile sportsmen who also were affected.

His former team mates Steve Harmison and Marcus Trescothick have both said they suffered from depression, which ultimately contributed to their international retirements.

Vaughan added that Trott had been suffering from a drop in form and had problems with the short-pitched bowling of Australia's pacemen in the first test at the Gabba, but that was no reason to leave the tour early.

His dismissal in the second innings of the first test was labelled as 'weak' by Australian batsman David Warner, which drew a rebuke from the England team.

Trott left after that match and England were hammered 5-0 by Michael Clarke's side in the tests and beaten 4-1 in the one-day internationals and 3-0 in the Twenty20 series.

“I have no doubt he was going through hard times in Australia but as professional sportsmen playing in a high-profile, intense series such as the Ashes against good opposition you are going to endure stress when your form goes. It is part of the job,” Vaughan added.

“Trott was failing on the biggest stage and he admitted that the previous occasion he suffered burnout was in South Africa in 2009-10, the only other time he has faced top-quality fast bowling.

“He was in a bad state mentally in both series but also technically and until he corrects the faults in his game against fast bowling, he will not get any better.”

Vaughan said Trott would need to earn his place back in the England team, though even then he may not be welcomed back as other players like Joe Root and Matt Prior were dropped for poor form on the Ashes tour but did not quit and return home.

“What Trott will have to accept is that players in his own dressing room and in the opposition will look at him and think at the toughest of times he did a runner,” Vaughan wrote.

“He did not fight and got on a plane and went home. It is harsh but that is the reality.”

[EwarWoo]

Trott has lost quite a bit of cred with me these last few days. Him saying he was worried about being called a 'Nutcase' because his 'illness' was being burnt out, really sticks in the throat. It really marginalises the people with actual problems. As his was basically down to a loss of form, from what I can see?

Yeah, having read the full thing I have to agree.

It's not to say stress isn't a real illness that can be debilitating by itself, but the way it was communicated was misleading and weak.

[Shaggy]

I watched the Trott documentary last night and I totally oppose Vaughan's callous and ignorant article.

Sure, Trott wasn't/isn't suffering from depression, and in trying to 'control the story' the ECB misled many, but just because something is not depression doesn't mean you're a wuss, which is basically the stance Vaughan and others are adopting. It's so ****ing macho. Trott had a stress-induced breakdown. Not depression, no, but mental burn-out is very real.

In trying to explain he wasn't suffering from depression, Trott was ham-fisted and phrases like "I'm not crazy" aren't helpful. But that is no reason for the likes of Vaughan to be so callous.

[Alex]

Was it a stress induced breakdown? I dont doubt the severity of what he says happened to him. But using words like 'Nutjob' is ignorant. Especially when most people were lead to believe that he was suffering depression or similar.From hearing Trott, it sounded like he needed some time off the circus, which is fair. But its not exactly been told like that.

Its not any Macho bravado to suggest he wasn't as serious as it was being made out. No one is saying he is a bottler for leaving a tour with stress.

[Shaggy]

Was it a stress induced breakdown? I dont doubt the severity of what he says happened to him. But using words like 'Nutjob' is ignorant. Especially when most people were lead to believe that he was suffering depression or similar.From hearing Trott, it sounded like he needed some time off the circus, which is fair. But its not exactly been told like that.

Its not any Macho bravado to suggest he wasn't as serious as it was being made out. No one is saying he is a bottler for leaving a tour with stress.

Vaughan is. His article is a disgrace.

Trott was ham-fisted in trying to correct the view that he had depression. That's obvious. But it wasn't him who said he had an illness. It was Flower and Morris. They tried to control the story and it has led to a negative fallout.

Watch the documentary, it's clear Trott had a stress induced breakdown of some sort. Mental burn out, whatever you want to call it. He was in a bad way, he was done. It does not warrant in any way that sort of vicious article from Vaughan, which essentially says "he's a wuss". Appalling.

[Alex]

Calling him a wuss is obviously not on. But I kind of agree with Vaughan that its been terribly handled.

Not seen the doc with Trott yet, only read articles and his words.

Any player who wants time off should get it, because no sportsman wants to walk away from anything. Its a tough decision.

Too be brutally honest, this is just another in a ****ing long line of **** ups from Flower and the ECB. The Ashes, Trott, KP and whatever else has gone on recently. All just stink of an organisation who are losing grip of reality.

[captainfog]

He didn't just walk away, he effectively had a stress induced breakdown. Not his fault the ECB handled the story so badly.

[captainfog]

[captainfog]

The expert view - Big strides have been made

Interview by Andrew McGlashan

November 25, 2013

Jonathan Trott has been ruled out of the remainder of the Ashes tour with a stress-related illness. Brett Morrissey, a cognitive behaviour consultant, who has worked with professional sports people including Michael Yardy who left England's 2011 World Cup campaign in a similar situation, explains to ESPNcricinfo about the illness, the improved understanding of it and breaking down barriers.

What is a stress-related illness?

It's an all-encompassing phrase. It could mean several things. In one way it protects the person because the public do not need to know the specifics. When we see people from any walk of life you will make a more specific diagnosis based on the things they can tell you. It can include anxiety, depression and agitation as responses to the stress involved.

What strides have been made over recent years in the understanding and treatment?

The biggest stride was someone like Marcus Trescothick coming out in public, it makes everyone aware and also takes away the stigma. In sport, especially, there is a macho environment and you don't want to be seen to have what some people would term a weakness. You can tend to hide things away or bottle things up, put on a front and get on with it. Marcus did lots of people a favour.

You find that in any walk of life. If someone at work confides in a colleague then you will find others coming forward and saying they've been suffering or having treatment. Raising the awareness was key, within the sports teams themselves as well. Coaches and doctors are now spotting things earlier and there are procedures in place to form a support network.

Do cases vary from person to person?

Certainly, like any illness, they can be different from case to case. They'll be different types of problems and different intensities from one case to the next, from severe to milder episodes that you can go through. There is some thinking that there can be a genetic element, that some people are more predisposed than others, but there can also be a connection between life events. Also, people have a threshold where, up to a point, you can manage stresses - for example if they are spread out - but when they combine it goes beyond that point where normal coping mechanisms aren't effective

How has the thinking developed into the causes?

The current thinking is that there are two models. There's the mental model where the current thought is that there can be changes in levels of chemicals in the brain - usually serotonin - where you have a reduction, which can be treated with medication. The other model is the way people think, known as cognitive behaviour therapy, and how they interpret things. For example you may see something as threatening but it isn't, it's the way you've interpreted it. It's how we think, how we behave and how we feel. You can get a lot of automatic thoughts which aren't true and that's what we work on when trying to help a person.

Clearly it is not just an issue for those with high-profile lifestyles

I'm not aware of any figures about having a high-profile life making you any more prone. The current numbers suggest 5% of the population at any one time can be suffering from depression and with anxiety up to 10% at any one time. But, from a sporting point of view, what they found with the South African rugby union team after one World Cup was quite a high amount of depression among the players straight after the event; two years build up and all the emotion of the event put such physical and mental strain on them and then suddenly it's all finished. A similar process can happen in retirement, both within sport but also within any walk of life.

What is the recovery process?

It's hard to say without knowing the individual but over weeks or months people can make a very good or full recovery and can get back into their professional life, although it all differs from a case-by-case basis. Also, it isn't always the work itself that has caused the illness - even if it is where the problems has come to the fore - it can be many other things. Work can actually be somewhere you are comfortable with your role, know what you are doing and have support from friends and colleagues.

Sport can sometimes be slightly different because of the intensity you are under - it's not a normal job - and part of the recovery process will be looking to deal with that and any other causes of stresses. From Jonathan Trott's point of view he will have fantastic support and help from the ECB, who work very closely with the PCA and counties, and have an excellent system in place to help their players.

[Shaggy]

I cannot believe the lack of compassion and downright callousness in many quarters. People in the media, with platforms as huge as the BBC, who really should know better.

Happily the smart ones - Dobell etc - agree with me over Vaughan's astonishing lack of understanding.

[Hollowman]

I found it strange from Vaughan. He has previously spoken well about the need for sound support for cricketers once they retire, given the bother some experience. Yet he trundles out this avalanche of bollocks.

[Shaggy]

Cunt blocked me on Twitter too FFS