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    Here we go....

    Andy Flower's future as director of the England team may hinge on whether the selectors and the new managing director see an international future for Kevin Pietersen as the side looks to regenerate after the 5-0 whitewash in the Ashes series.

    Although Paul Downton, who only took over at the start of the month following the retirement of Hugh Morris, has yet to begin his own assessment of the situation Flower, who has to take ultimate responsibility for the overwhelming defeat, has notionally already been given the backing of his employer, the England and Wales Cricket Board. It is believed, moreover, that both Flower and the captain Alastair Cook are likely to get Downton's official backing.

    However, so adamant is Flower that the presence of Pietersen in the dressing room is detrimental to the future development of the side that he is believed to be prepared to resign his position should Downton, James Whitaker, the new national selector, and Cook – if he retains the captaincy – insist that Pietersen should be a part of that process.

    Pietersen and Flower have issues that go back at least to early summer 2012 when, without warning, the batsman declared himself unavailable for one-day international matches. Following what were considered inappropriate text messages to the South Africa team regarding the then England captain Andrew Strauss, which subsequently contributed to his retirement. Pietersen was omitted from the final Test of the summer and it was not until the tour of India that winter that he was reintegrated into the side.

    In Mumbai on that tour he played one of the great Test innings to help kickstart a revival that led to a memorable series win for Cook and England.

    However, it has always seemed an uneasy truce and on this tour, despite his assurances before his 100th Test in Brisbane that he was committed to England to 2015 and beyond, it is thought that Pietersen's influence in the dressing room has been divisive.

    He is one of many who failed to score big runs during the Ashes series, top scoring although with only 294 runs at an average of 29.4 but, as a senior player, the nature of a number of his dismissals when apparently batting comfortably has led to some strong exchanges. Flower is thought to believe that the future development of the team can only happen without Pietersen.

    In the wake of speculation that he might retire from Test cricket after the Ashes Pietersen, who is very media-savvy, has already tweeted a reiteration of his desire to continue at least until the end of the next Ashes series, and perhaps into the series in South Africa, the only country in which he has yet to score a Test hundred. He also wants to be the first England batsman to score 10,000 Test runs.

    It will not be a function of whether he wants to retire, though, but of whether England want him.

    It could be that things come to a head earlier following this year's auction for the Indian Premier League, which is due to take place on 12 February. Pietersen is a marquee player who has performed for the Bangalore Royal Challengers and, in 2012, Delhi Daredevils. He missed the sixth edition of IPL in 2013 because of a knee injury and is now out of contract.

    The latest contracts are expected to be offered for three years and Pietersen, a brilliant player and immensely popular in India, would be expected to fetch a price at the highest end of the scale and as such would be extremely lucrative.

    But it is thought that the contracts will be contingent on full availability for all three seasons, something that would not tie in with the potential demands of England cricket.

    Flower, should he retain his position, will probably insist that with most places up for grabs in the team to play Sri Lanka in June, potential batsmen play a significant number of the eight county championship matches that precede the series.

    It is hard to see how Pietersen would be willing to compromise on this over three years given the rewards on offer and the fact that he will be 34 in June, with a history of injury, and as such understandably keen to maximise his earnings.

    In that circumstance his retirement from international cricket, rather than Flower's resignation, would seem the likeliest outcome.

    Comment


      Yep. Now seems obvious Swann's comments were aimed at Pietersen. What a mess.
      Thanks very much for being ‘This Mornings’ Farmer’

      Comment


        Reported here as well, seems clear it's not bull****.



        Ashes 2013-14: Fate of feuding Kevin Pietersen and Andy Flower rests on Paul Downton

        Relationship between England batsman and coach Andy Flower has broken down to the point that pair may no longer be able to co-exist


        Cross purposes: Kevin Pietersen and Andy Flower face uncertain futures within the England cricket setup Photo: GETTY IMAGES

        Nick Hoult By Nick Hoult, Sydney3:12PM GMT 07 Jan 2014

        Paul Downton, the new managing director of England cricket, will decide the futures of Andy Flower and Kevin Pietersen, whose relationship has broken down to the extent they may not both be able to carry on as part of the England Test set-up.

        Downton, appointed on Jan 1, will conduct the England and Wales Cricket Board’s internal review of the Ashes whitewash. He will speak to each player and member of *backroom staff as he compiles his report and will take his time before making any decisions on the fate of leading figures in the management and team.

        Flower has told the ECB that he wants to rebuild the England team and the board has so far backed him publicly but ultimately the decision to keep him or not will rest with Downton. Pietersen said yesterday that he wants to help England regain the Ashes in 2015 but privately fears that he will be made a scapegoat for the 5-0 series defeat. Should Downton conclude that Flower should stay, it may spell the end of Pietersen’s Test career. Despite being England’s most talented batsman, he has little support within the ECB hierarchy and his relationship with Flower broke down completely last year and has not been repaired since. There have been suggestions that Flower might consider resigning should Pietersen remain part of the England squad.

        England will also watch with interest what attitude Pietersen takes to this year’s Indian Premier League. Pietersen’s deal with the Delhi Daredevils expired last year and IPL franchises will soon announce their retained list of players who have agreed new three-year deals. The rest will enter the auction. If Pietersen signs a new deal with Delhi it will be viewed by England as a sign of where his priorities lie and could hasten his exit from international cricket, especially as two other leading England players, Stuart Broad and Ben Stokes, are expected to turn down IPL offers in order to prepare for Test duties next summer.

        One potential option for England is to settle Pietersen’s central contract and try to persuade him to retire without causing a stir. But Pietersen has rarely backed down in his dealings with the ECB. There is no doubt that he fears he will be a casualty as England assess the wreckage of this Ashes tour. He retweeted Michael Vaughan’s Michael Vaughan’s Telegraph Sport column to his 1.5 million followers yesterday in which the former England captain pleaded with Cook and Flower to stick with Pietersen, suggesting he should be appointed vice-captain.

        Pietersen only returned to the side after the text scandal of 2012 at the insistence of Cook, who recognised in his early days of captaincy that he needed his best player at his side if he was to establish a winning culture.
        In India last year Pietersen repaid Cook with one of his greatest innings in the win in Mumbai which turned the Test series in England’s favour.

        Pietersen batted selflessly in the Melbourne Test when Cook needed a performance from his most experienced batsman but cut a distant figure on the outfield, rarely involved in tactical discussions with other senior players and the captain.

        Smoothing over the relationship between Flower and Pietersen could be high on Downton’s list of *priorities as England can ill-afford to lose another senior player following the retirement of Graeme Swann and the uncertainty over Jonathan Trott’s long-term future.

        Downton will at least be buoyed that Broad and Stokes, England’s two leading players from the Ashes, are poised to deliver a boost by turning down the chance to play in the IPL. It is understood that Broad and Stokes will not be entering the IPL auction in February despite interest from franchises.

        Stokes is believed to have been approached by one franchise to play in the IPL in April and May but has decided to concentrate on building his England career after emerging from the wreckage of the Ashes series as the most promising player for the future. As an all-rounder with star potential, Stokes could have commanded a large fee in the IPL auction on Feb  12 while Broad has boosted his own status with two good Ashes series with the ball. Broad, England’s Twenty20 captain, signed a deal with Kings XI Punjab in 2011 and 2012 but did not play a game due to injury.

        The new central contracts allow England players a window to play in the IPL only until May 13 this year which disappointed officials in India who had thought they would be available for longer. But England want the players home before the one-day series against Sri Lanka which starts on May 22, and Flower is keen to see his batsmen in particular play in the County Championship.
        Thanks very much for being ‘This Mornings’ Farmer’

        Comment


          I don't see how Flowers worth to the team can be higher than Pietersens. Pietersen just seems to be the scapegoat for everything?

          Shocking tour, badly managed and captained... Who's to blame? Your best Batsman.

          Cook needs to grow a pair and get this sorted out, there are a few ego's in the team (Swann, Broad, Anderson and of course KP) - they need to work as a team. This is all massively counter productive.
          Modifying post.

          Comment


            KP>Flower

            **** off Flower.
            https://www.needlesandgrooves.com/

            https://twitter.com/NeedlesNGrooves

            Comment


              Originally posted by captainfog View Post
              KP>Flower

              **** off Flower.
              I agree in principle but if KP is really that much of a cunt in the dressing room I don't see how it can help new players coming into the side, or indeed the existing ones he's pissed off, so with that in mind I'd say he should be ****ed off. As I said I reckon it's obvious Swann was referring to KP and all the reports say Pietersen is "divisive in the dressing room". If true that's a problem.
              Thanks very much for being ‘This Mornings’ Farmer’

              Comment


                Originally posted by Shaggy View Post
                I agree in principle but if KP is really that much of a cunt in the dressing room I don't see how it can help new players coming into the side, or indeed the existing ones he's pissed off, so with that in mind I'd say he should be ****ed off. As I said I reckon it's obvious Swann was referring to KP and all the reports say Pietersen is "divisive in the dressing room". If true that's a problem.
                It just seems a bit much that he is continually the go to guy when the **** hits the fan... You suspect he has been sold down the river a few times by his team mates, clearly Swann referencing him in his bio was a bad move, yet it is Pietersen that carries the can. The whole team needs to take a look at themselves, and not look for an easy scapegoat. Make the hard decisions, but getting rid of the best batsman doesn't seem the way forward. In my actual cricket watching over the last few years Pietersen has been easily the best and most exciting batsman I have ever watched. he just doesn't have enough English sensibilities and therefor is used as a scapegoat, if he were from any other Test country you wouldn't hear about all this bollocks.
                Modifying post.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Buzzo View Post
                  It just seems a bit much that he is continually the go to guy when the **** hits the fan... You suspect he has been sold down the river a few times by his team mates, clearly Swann referencing him in his bio was a bad move, yet it is Pietersen that carries the can. The whole team needs to take a look at themselves, and not look for an easy scapegoat. Make the hard decisions, but getting rid of the best batsman doesn't seem the way forward. In my actual cricket watching over the last few years Pietersen has been easily the best and most exciting batsman I have ever watched. he just doesn't have enough English sensibilities and therefor is used as a scapegoat, if he were from any other Test country you wouldn't hear about all this bollocks.
                  I agree he gets the blame too much and I don't agree with it when it's solely down to his batting. But we don't see what goes on and if he's a cunt then what can you do. We know he sent messages to SA players, slagging off Strauss etc, and that is totally unacceptable and you wonder if it's the tip of the iceberg with him.

                  Obviously I want him in the team and don't want him hung out to dry for cricketing reasons. I wonder if Flower is the fall guy, rather than Pietersen, how many other players would go with him?
                  Thanks very much for being ‘This Mornings’ Farmer’

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Shaggy View Post
                    I agree in principle but if KP is really that much of a cunt in the dressing room I don't see how it can help new players coming into the side, or indeed the existing ones he's pissed off, so with that in mind I'd say he should be ****ed off. As I said I reckon it's obvious Swann was referring to KP and all the reports say Pietersen is "divisive in the dressing room". If true that's a problem.
                    KP never got on with Swann and Broad, he thought they were dickheads (and to be fair, so do I) and they thought he takes himself too seriously. Do you remember Broady and the parody twitter account thing?

                    As for Flower, it's a hangover from the Strauss thing. He never wanted him back but the selectors and Cooky forced the issue. Thank god they did because we wouldn't have won in India without him. Thing is with Flower, he wants robots that do exactly what he says and say what he wants. KP isn't that, he's a flawed genius, you bend the rules for someone like him. Flower is incapable of doing that due to the rather large rod stuck up his arse.
                    https://www.needlesandgrooves.com/

                    https://twitter.com/NeedlesNGrooves

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by captainfog View Post
                      KP never got on with Swann and Broad, he thought they were dickheads (and to be fair, so do I) and they thought he takes himself too seriously. Do you remember Broady and the parody twitter account thing?

                      As for Flower, it's a hangover from the Strauss thing. He never wanted him back but the selectors and Cooky forced the issue. Thank god they did because we wouldn't have won in India without him. Thing is with Flower, he wants robots that do exactly what he says and say what he wants. KP isn't that, he's a flawed genius, you bend the rules for someone like him. Flower is incapable of doing that due to the rather large rod stuck up his arse.
                      Yep totally accept all that.

                      I would happily see the back of Flower. What worries me slightly is a few of the blokes who obviously have miles greater insight than you or I, and blokes whom I have great respect for (like Athers and Nasser) are incredibly steadfast in their belief Flower should stay. If the purported problems with Flower were as bad as claimed - rigid, dour, overly-demanding and intense, stick up his arse etc - I feel certain they'd know about it and frown on it.
                      Thanks very much for being ‘This Mornings’ Farmer’

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Shaggy View Post
                        I agree he gets the blame too much and I don't agree with it when it's solely down to his batting. But we don't see what goes on and if he's a cunt then what can you do. We know he sent messages to SA players, slagging off Strauss etc, and that is totally unacceptable and you wonder if it's the tip of the iceberg with him.

                        Obviously I want him in the team and don't want him hung out to dry for cricketing reasons. I wonder if Flower is the fall guy, rather than Pietersen, how many other players would go with him?
                        It seems incredible they cannot sort this out. From a reasonably easy Ashes win to this in 6 months...

                        I think the leadership has to be questioned after this tour, and for me that is either or both Flower and Cook. Cook needs to get back to being an awkward, obstinate, boring batsman, and a chance to prove himself as captain (the worry being tactically he just hasn't got it)... I think a change at the top is the way forward irrespective of the Flower/Pietersen situation. A good captain and a good manager should be able to sort it out. I'd love to see how Vaughan would have captained this side, he has been the best England captain in recent memory and seemed to command respect of his team. He was good with building morale and getting the best out of his team (added to that he was an innovative captain), cook is just not that kind of guy, and possibly does not have the right personality for captaincy (ironically I think Pietersen has it in him to be a great captain, but there is far too much water under that bridge). I also agree with Vaughan that a guy with Pietersens experience should be welcomed back into the fold, and a way forward has to be found. Bridges need to be built. A strong leadership needs to be found.
                        Last edited by Buzzo; 07-01-14, 08:25 PM.
                        Modifying post.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by captainfog View Post
                          KP never got on with Swann and Broad, he thought they were dickheads (and to be fair, so do I) and they thought he takes himself too seriously. Do you remember Broady and the parody twitter account thing?

                          As for Flower, it's a hangover from the Strauss thing. He never wanted him back but the selectors and Cooky forced the issue. Thank god they did because we wouldn't have won in India without him. Thing is with Flower, he wants robots that do exactly what he says and say what he wants. KP isn't that, he's a flawed genius, you bend the rules for someone like him. Flower is incapable of doing that due to the rather large rod stuck up his arse.
                          100 % agree.
                          Modifying post.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Shaggy View Post
                            Yep totally accept all that.

                            I would happily see the back of Flower. What worries me slightly is a few of the blokes who obviously have miles greater insight than you or I, and blokes whom I have great respect for (like Athers and Nasser) are incredibly steadfast in their belief Flower should stay. If the purported problems with Flower were as bad as claimed - rigid, dour, overly-demanding and intense, stick up his arse etc - I feel certain they'd know about it and frown on it.
                            Yeah they are. And I'd accept that. Although I would say that both were a similar style of leader, both very tough, very intense characters when they played and captained England, so I'd imagine they would identify with Flower's style.
                            https://www.needlesandgrooves.com/

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                            Comment


                              Originally posted by captainfog View Post
                              Yeah they are. And I'd accept that. Although I would say that both were a similar style of leader, both very tough, very intense characters when they played and captained England, so I'd imagine they would identify with Flower's style.
                              Yeah I meant to say the same thing. But neither are shy of identifying problems and speaking out. Their passion in defending Flower's position surprised me a bit, cos I believe the talk of him being too intense and think the team needs a change of direction and approach.
                              Thanks very much for being ‘This Mornings’ Farmer’

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Shaggy View Post
                                Yeah I meant to say the same thing. But neither are shy of identifying problems and speaking out. Their passion in defending Flower's position surprised me a bit, cos I believe the talk of him being too intense and think the team needs a change of direction and approach.
                                Yeah, everyone sees the game differently.

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