Italian Football

[Ron_Mexico]

I absolutely 100% totally think that the ref was either paid, or instructed by Platini that it was to go Milan's way. Period.

I know we had our chances, and believe me I don't want to hear how we should have converted them because I know we should have, but 27 fouls to 15, at least half of those fouls were ****ing crap, a MINIMUM 3 minutes of extra time that turned into less than 2 and a half with at least 30 seconds wasted from the crawl off substitution that also wasn't added on as well. Maybe he was too busy looking at the nice Rolex he was given before the match to worry about actual timekeeping, I'm not sure. I was seriously floored within the first 10 minutes of the match with the calls that were being made, and knew we were done right there.

Also, 6 games he's reffed LFC, we've now lost all of them. Reffed 7 games for Milan, and they've magically won all of those. This German bitch was hand picked for this match from the head of UEFA. No questions in my mind. It reminded me of the Pele movie Victory it was so poor.


But that's just my opinion. WTF do I know, I'm Canadian.

i was interested to hear what you had to say on the matter since you were there.

the ref was a disgrace, there's no doubt that Italian football is bent, milan shouldn't even have been in the competition. uefa let them back in and then apparently helped them win it.

there is at least strong evidence to back up what you're saying. i've never seen a ref end a game before the designated time, unless one team is getting stomped. but to call it 30 seconds early while we're attacking....it goes along with how he approached the rest of the match. he let them waste so much time and then didn't give any of it back to us. neutrals have told me they thought he was against liverpool, didn't want us to gain any advantage. and thats from 3 different people i talked to who have no interest in the outcome

the first goal was a handball of course, and he called everything in their favour while kuyt was getting murdered up front. he's a **** ref and should never have gotten a final, but why did he?

[Neil Young]

We lost. The first goal wasn't handball. The rule is about intention, not gaining an unfair advantage.

The ref made some poor decisions and the timekeeping thing was very poor. To imply however that was why we lost is clutching at straws to say the least.

I notice you don't mention the linesman who flagged for offside even though Kaka' was onside and through on Reina with our defence caught hopelessly upfield.

It's disappointing but I really suggest you get over it.

[Nic83]

Juve let me down in a few accas in the late part of the season. Drawing at home to teams i've never heard of!! Pathetic stuff! I soon stopped betting on them. Can't trust that league.

[tomasjj]

We lost. The first goal wasn't handball. The rule is about intention, not gaining an unfair advantage.

The ref made some poor decisions and the timekeeping thing was very poor. To imply however that was why we lost is clutching at straws to say the least.

I notice you don't mention the linesman who flagged for offside even though Kaka' was onside and through on Reina with our defence caught hopelessly upfield.

It's disappointing but I really suggest you get over it.

Stop the press!!
Neil Young in defending corruption shocker!

[Neil Young]

Stop the press!!
Neil Young in defending corruption shocker!

I do think there is a strong whiff of dodgy dealings about Italian football (on top of what's been found) and certainly there is a long history of corruption throughout Italian public life (partly a consequence of the Christian Democrat hegemony from WW2 although the roots go back far further than that).

However, how many first team players did Alex Ferguson play against West Ham? Was that corruption too?

[tomasjj]

I do think there is a strong whiff of dodgy dealings about Italian football (on top of what's been found) and certainly there is a long history of corruption throughout Italian public life (partly a consequence of the Christian Democrat hegemony from WW2 although the roots go back far further than that).

However, how many first team players did Alex Ferguson play against West Ham? Was that corruption too?

Not in my book, as Slur can pick the team he wants.
A ref however has to be clean - he is the judge out here on the pitch.

[Neil Young]

Not in my book, as Slur can pick the team he wants.
A ref however has to be clean - he is the judge out here on the pitch.

Of course but you're not going along with the notion that the German ref for the Champions' League final was corrupt, are you?

[Dhav]

We lost. The first goal wasn't handball. The rule is about intention, not gaining an unfair advantage.

The ref made some poor decisions and the timekeeping thing was very poor. To imply however that was why we lost is clutching at straws to say the least.

I notice you don't mention the linesman who flagged for offside even though Kaka' was onside and through on Reina with our defence caught hopelessly upfield.

It's disappointing but I really suggest you get over it.

You make some fair points.

I wasnt blaming the ref for not disallowing the first goal because I dont know the law and so cant judge whether the ref applied it correctly. Just suggesting that the law is an ass if it is solely about intention - how can it be fair if you handball it and because of the handball you get a goal?

The ref was poor, but I didnt mean to suggest that it was the sole reason we lost. However, it certainly did not help us, and it worked strongly in Milan's favour.

All things being equal, you dont know for sure that the poor refereeing didnt make the difference between winning and losing.

[AFII]

Platini played in our CL final against Juventus at Heysel.

What do you think his opinion of Liverpool FC as a club has been after that game?

My guess is that he hate us very much. I don't expect us to get treated in a fair way as long as Platini is the President of UEFA.

He picked the ref so Milan would win the game.

[tomasjj]

Of course but you're not going along with the notion that the German ref for the Champions' League final was corrupt, are you?

No, I don't really think so.
Biased, yes, paid up, no.
I am sure Platini wanted Milan to win though...the ****.

[Neil Young]

You guys with your conspiracy theories.



You could be right but I suppose there's no way at the moment of knowing whether it's true or not.

[AFII]

Look at the refs we had against Barca, Chelsea and Milan.

All of them didn't give us anything. It wasn't just the final.

[Neil Young]

Look at the refs we had against Barca, Chelsea and Milan.

All of them didn't give us anything. It wasn't just the final.

That's just opinion.

Also, it's wrong. As I said, what about the offside we got in the final? Or the foul by Kuyt in the build-up to Agger's goal in the semi-final?

I'm not saying the refs were perfect - the one in the final certainly wasn't - but we have to recognise that maybe we're not the best judges of referees at least when Liverpool are playing.

[dww]

You make some fair points.

I wasnt blaming the ref for not disallowing the first goal because I dont know the law and so cant judge whether the ref applied it correctly. Just suggesting that the law is an ass if it is solely about intention - how can it be fair if you handball it and because of the handball you get a goal?

The ref was poor, but I didnt mean to suggest that it was the sole reason we lost. However, it certainly did not help us, and it worked strongly in Milan's favour.

All things being equal, you dont know for sure that the poor refereeing didnt make the difference between winning and losing.

From the BBC. (I quickly checked and the 2005 and current rules seem identical on the point of what defines handball - how referees have been told to "interpret" them may have altered):

In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)".

Page 67 of the document gives "additional information for referees, assistant referees and fourth officials".

It adds: "Referees are reminded that deliberately handling the ball is normally punished only by a direct free-kick or penalty kick if the offence occurred inside the penalty area.

"A caution or dismissal is not normally required."

However, the document fails to describe what constitutes deliberate handball, which places the responsibility firmly on the referee and referees' assistants.

Former Premier League referee David Elleray said the referee's interpretation depends on whether the hand or arm is in an "unnatural" position at the point of contact.

David Elleray consults his assistant during a club "Referees look at two specifics - did the hand or arm go towards the ball or in a manner which would block the ball, or is the hand in a position where it would not normally be?" Elleray told BBC Sport.

"The challenging decisions are if the defending player spreads their arms to make themselves bigger.

"If the ball hits the arm then the referee must decide whether this action was to deliberately block the ball or whether the player has raised their arms to protect themselves - especially if the ball is hit at speed."

[enema of the state]

Really really disgusts me. So many of the matches today were fixed. I had heard various reports about some of the matches to be held today, sure enough all came out as expected. The bookies knew in advance what to expect hence the ridiculous odds given for the top teams.

Sure enough- Milan, Lazio and Empoli all threw their games today.

Italian football will never change. Pathetic