Howard Webb

[Roboklopp]

I knew someone would say that.

There is at the very least one person on here who has completely changed their mind about how deserved the scum's position in the table has been following today's game. Not only that, but if people have long held that belief then why are they so schocked at today and why do they sound like people stupidly lashing out rather than people with a serious point to make? Maybe the league is rigged and maybe it isn't. My point is all this stuff is just people's emotional reactions.

Straw that broke the camel's back mate.

Plus,this time it is us rather than the Gooners or the Chavs who are the direct competition. Makes the reactions far more intense as we are wanting to win as well as see them lose.

[Guest]

Do you think there's a difference between a freekick 25 yards from goal, with a wall in the way & about 15 other players between ball and goal - and a penalty, from 12 yards out, with only keeper between ball and goal?

Or do you think they offer the same level of advantage and opportunity for the attacking team?

Take your time and think carefully.

Of course it's not the same but why are you moving the goalposts here? We still scored from a dubious free kick and I'm sure you would have come out with the same arguments if United scored from one of them. That's pure frustration and it's understandable and maybe it's best not to come forward with allegations when you're under emotional bias.

They were still trailing 1-2 when they scored that penalty but they swarmed Spurs with their sheer willpower after that but it was coming. Not sure Spurs would have won it based on United's whirlwind start in the second half. They put teams under pressure and that's why they get those decisions. I like to think we're starting to get those too.

[Craig_H]

Craig.

If things are as bad as you say they are, then why didn't Gomes get a red card from Webb?

Did Fergie tell him to keep him on??

Because they still need to try and maintain SOME sense of it being 'honest'.

Dont get me wrong, if it had reached 80 minutes with Spurs leading 1-2, i'm sure Webb would've stepped in again with his brand of 'honest' refereeing.

I dunno about anyone else, but i find it hard to comprehend a scenario whereby it's always the mancs who get game-changing decisions in their favour, and always when they're in a position that threatens their status.

It's happened far too often, in favour of the same team, at the same venue, in the same circumstances, for it to be coincidental.

[Guest]

Because they still need to try and maintain SOME sense of it being 'honest'.

Dont get me wrong, if it had reached 80 minutes with Spurs leading 1-2, i'm sure Webb would've stepped in again with his brand of 'honest' refereeing.

I dunno about anyone else, but i find it hard to comprehend a scenario whereby it's always the mancs who get game-changing decisions in their favour, and always when they're in a position that threatens their status.

It's happened far too often, in favour of the same team, at the same venue, in the same circumstances, for it to be coincidental.

But those kind of situations need to happen for the ref to give a penalty! If it doesn't happen he can't pull out one out of the blue.

[TheElephantMan]

Does Webb genuinely believe that it was a penalty? I seriously doubt it.

Is it possible from where he was positioned that he might have not seen contact between Gomez' hand and the ball? The ball quite clearly changes direction, and the referee can see that the ball changes direction from where he's standing. It really smacks of corruption, it's impossible for Webb to make the wrong decision in that situation unless he's looking to give United something.

[Shaggy]

Craig.

If things are as bad as you say they are, then why didn't Gomes get a red card from Webb?

Because he ****ing knew it wasn't a penalty. He knew he got the ball FFS.

[Shanks]

but Spurs were still 1-2 at that point.

Surely Harry Redknapp has a lot to answer for based on his tactics, or lack of.

[Craig_H]

Of course it's not the same but why are you moving the goalposts here? We still scored from a dubious free kick and I'm sure you would have come out with the same arguments if United scored from one of them. That's pure frustration and it's understandable and maybe it's best not to come forward with allegations when you're under emotional bias.

They were still trailing 1-2 when they scored that penalty but they swarmed Spurs with their sheer willpower after that but it was coming. Not sure Spurs would have won it based on United's whirlwind start in the second half. They put teams under pressure and that's why they get those decisions. I like to think we're starting to get those too.

What are you on about with goalposts?

The fact is, there's an absolutely monumental difference between a freekick from 25 yards and a penalty. Absolutely massive difference, even you know that.

You also know the effect of being given a goal out of nowhere and how this gets teams going, and the crowd buzzing. Plus, the fact that Spurs got robbed would also have had a huge impact on their mentality and belief.

The decision was scandalous and it had the biggest impact on this game, more than anything else.

Before the penalty, the mancs were struggling to carve out anything, looked out of ideas and Spurs were comfortable. Goals completely change games, especially in those kind of absurd circumstances.

Those three points were hugely down to a disgraceful decision.

Add to that, the one they got against Bolton, which was insane, and the 2 points we lost against Stoke, again because of **** officials, and there's potentially 8 points which have been down to referees, and not the players.

[Red_Polo]

Straw that broke the camel's back mate.

Yes, in terms of emotions. It's got no basis in terms of evidence for what's going on though. Are you telling me today's decision has taken us over a threashold whereby we now know that the FA is engaged in a conspiracy to ensure Man Utd win the league, including coercing refs? That's like me concluding because my my neighbour gets milk at their front door every Monday morning their doorstep spontaneously produces it on a weekly basis. There might well be smoke, but nobody has a clue whether there's fire let alone which ****er lit the cunt.

[Craig_H]

But those kind of situations need to happen for the ref to give a penalty! If it doesn't happen he can't pull out one out of the blue.

Seriously fredo, what are you talking about?

Of course those situations will happen, players WILL run in the box, keepers WILL come out to meet the ball, defenders WILL make tackles.

Are they not meant to defend and play the ball anymore, because it gives the ref the chance to give a penalty?

I honestly think you're just joking now, there's no way you can be serious.

[Craig_H]

Does Webb genuinely believe that it was a penalty? I seriously doubt it.

Is it possible from where he was positioned that he might have not seen contact between Gomez' hand and the ball? The ball quite clearly changes direction, and the referee can see that the ball changes direction from where he's standing. It really smacks of corruption, it's impossible for Webb to make the wrong decision in that situation unless he's looking to give United something.

Setanta showed the ref's view, and he had a clear view, between Ronaldo and Berbatov, neither of which was blocking his view, to see the ball, Gomes and Carrick. The idea is that a ref cannot give a penalty unless he's 100% certain of the foul.

There's no way he could've given that unless, as you rightly indicate, he's consciously looking to give them something.

[Tee]

Howard Webb stole the show today. Well done you ****in ****, well done.

[Craig_H]

Yes, in terms of emotions. It's got no basis in terms of evidence for what's going on though. Are you telling me today's decision has taken us over a threashold whereby we now know that the FA is engaged in a conspiracy to ensure Man Utd win the league, including coercing refs? That's like me concluding because my my neighbour gets milk at their front door every Monday morning their doorstep spontaneously produces it on a weekly basis. There might well be smoke, but nobody has a clue whether there's fire let alone which ****er lit the cunt.

Nobody's got the balls to actually investigate it properly though, or come forward and say if anything dodgy's gone on - it'd completely ruin the lucrative Premier League. Nobody at the top is going to jeopordise all that money, it's a no-brainer.

[Guest]

Webb having had it wrong doesn't make it a 'corrupted' game IMO. Split second decisions are incredibly difficult to make. He made one and he has to live by it, no matter how many Liverpool supporters are incensed and that doesn't make as if he's cheated also. He's got the whole crowd going manic and I've got to put myself in his shoes trying to make a decision and ignoring all that.

Maybe Rafa should do the same and play Fergie's game, though I think he's started to do that. Still, there were some people criticizing him for his outburst against Fergie in December thinking it had backfired, but he was obviously mindful of how Ferguson does his tricks. All fair game IMO, unless the FA starts banning people doing that.

[Craig_H]

Webb having had it wrong doesn't make it a 'corrupted' game IMO. Split second decisions are incredibly difficult to make. He made one and he has to live by it, no matter how many Liverpool supporters are incensed and that doesn't make as if he's cheated also. He's got the whole crowd going manic and I've got to put myself in his shoes trying to make a decision and ignoring all that.

Maybe Rafa should do the same and play Fergie's game, though I think he's started to do that. Still, there were some people criticizing him for his outburst against Fergie in December thinking it had backfired, but he was obviously mindful of how Ferguson does his tricks. All fair game IMO, unless the FA starts banning people doing that.

So it's just coincidence that the same split-second mistakes seem to happen in their favour, at the most crucial times, when the stakes are at their highest.

Indeed.

Maybe, just maybe - if he cant make an easy decision like that, due to the 'crowd going manic', he shouldnt be a ref at the highest level of english football? Just an idea...