Adam Hammill

[Mattshark]

He has the academy now, we'll see what he can do. Maybe he won't sign 30 average youngsters every year who have no chance of making it, stick them in the reserves and clog up the system.

Oh ffs. All you seem to want is local lads to have an priority over others. Maybe they are just not good enough.

[Mattshark]

Now you've given your reasoning I can mate.

That said I'd rather have good young foreign players coming through and buy an Englishman like Johnson every year than have substandard 'homegrown' players kept on purely due to their nationality.

[dww]

You'll not be saying that when FIFA bring in some pathetic homegrown rule.

And the thing to remember about local lads is that they're much more likely to remain loyal and potentially accept a place as squad back up.

So whilst I see your point, surely you can also see mine?

I don't think we will ever see a genuine homegrown rule related to nationality. Something in line with the CL rules will be as far as the EU will ever go I think. Which means in future many of the players in the reserves will count as home developed and the problem ceases to exist.

I think only some of that is true. After all, letting a player go would mean he is likely to end up at a team with where their coaches are not at the same level as Liverpools.

Every player you ever speak too will always say that playing with better players in training, and learning of the best coaches, is a big difference. That said, the balance between playing and not must also be right.

I can see your point but all you can say is that there is no evidence of players really going on to prove Rafa wrong to get rid of them. Anything else is speculation that can never be proven.

[JohnDoe]

Oh ffs. All you seem to want is local lads to have an priority over others. Maybe they are just not good enough.

All I want is the academy products actually getting chances at the reserve level to develop.

[Exiled_red]

But the homegrown rule is not allowed to distinguish between players on the basis of nationality (as that would be racist). Players count as homegrown if the club holds their registration for 3 years between the ages of 16 and 21. This rule doesn't solely encourage the development of British players, it also encourages clubs to sign up young (16 or 17 year olds) who have potential.

[Mattshark]

All I want is the academy products actually getting chances at the reserve level to develop.

And if they are not good enough you imply they should be given an advantage. See what level most of them are at? It ain't the premier league is it.

[Reece]

All I want is the academy products actually getting chances at the reserve level to develop.

What, like Spearing, Darby, Kelly etc?

[JohnDoe]

Now you've given your reasoning I can mate.

That said I'd rather have good young foreign players coming through and buy an Englishman like Johnson every year than have substandard 'homegrown' players kept on purely due to their nationality.

This argument is weak because instead of having those homegrown players who are not good enough since they never played for the first team so they must be ****, we have non homegrown players who are nowhere near good enough.

Rafa has been signing kids for 5 year now hasn't he? Did anyone break through? Insua might be the lucky one since Dossena was terrible and Aurelio is injury prone. I can't think of anyone else.

[BFG]

He has the academy now, we'll see what he can do. Maybe he won't sign 30 average youngsters every year who have no chance of making it, stick them in the reserves and clog up the system.

I completely disagree with your view of the youth setup but I suppose that's what forums are for.

To me it's brimming with quality at the moment. We've already had Insua come through and I personally feel there's another 10 there now who could fill in if needed but Rafa prefers a lot of them to be a little older before they play regularly at first team level. It's a far better group of players than when Rafa came and I expect that to continue every year. Nemeth, Pacheco, Kelly, Spearing, El Zhar, Plessis, Darby, Gulasci and Bouzanis (any many more I've probably forgotten) all have a chance of making it and represent a huge leap in quality from Welsh, Newby, Mellor etc that we had in the recent years before Rafa's arrival.

[Mattshark]

This argument is weak because instead of having those homegrown players who are not good enough since they never played for the first team so they must be ****, we have non homegrown players who are nowhere near good enough.

Rafa has been signing kids for 5 year now hasn't he? Did anyone break through? Insua might be the lucky one since Dossena was terrible and Aurelio is injury prone. I can't think of anyone else.

And of course El Zhar has been getting games, Plessis has had a few as well.

[DannyMan2006]

Now you've given your reasoning I can mate.

That said I'd rather have good young foreign players coming through and buy an Englishman like Johnson every year than have substandard 'homegrown' players kept on purely due to their nationality.

I would never want to keep sub standard players.

But whilst I would not go as far to say he's better than El Zhar, he's surely not too far way from his standard. Of the two I would go as far to say Hammill has more natural ability from what I've seen, but it's about more than that in football.

It's well documented that Hammill was not viewed by Rafa and the coaching staff as a team player. But he is said to have sorted that problem on loan. But is he a hard, dedicated trainer? Does he have a party life style?

From the outside looking in I would say he's one of our most promising local players. With the FIFA ruling looking likely I think for that reason alone he should be given more time and given a crack at the first team squad.

It's no good having XI foreign players in the reserves if only five can come in and play in the first XI in the future. LFC has a duty to the community to make a go of bringing through the best local lads. We should only be bringing in the very best foreign kids. Though the initial influx can be attributed to a low level standard of coaching given to the kids in previous regimes.

Having said that, for every Emiliano Insua there is a Godwin Antwi or Miki Roque, neither of which were anywhere near a decent standard.

And it must be said that soi far there only seems to be four youth players who look like they may make a break through. Two are foreign (Insua and El Zhar) and two are local (Spearing and Darby). So let's not get too excited about this debate.

[JohnDoe]

What, like Spearing, Darby, Kelly etc?

Take a look at this and tell me how many academy players are there?

http://www.liverweb.org.uk/resapps.asp?season=200809

[Mattshark]

Take a look at this and tell me how many academy players are there?

http://www.liverweb.org.uk/resapps.asp?season=200809

So why can't you accept that they might not be good enough?

[Redspin]

Ferguson only gets rid of his youth products after he's given them a chance and only when he's certain they have no future at the club, even as squad players. He also gets a good penny for them.

Rafa is offloading decent talent for next to nothing, without them being even close to getting a chance, because he's filled the reserves with **** imports.

I love Rafa, he's the best in-game manager out there, his tactical knowledge is second to none and his attention to details and improving players is exceptional, but there is one thing the man is **** at, and that's bringing youth players through. He's horrendous at it and nowhere near Ferguson and Wenger.

Arsenal's young players who have played in the Premier League are almost all foreign buys and are not youth players Wenger's brought through. The last academy player to make it big for them was Ashley Cole.

Ditto Man U. They haven't brought a decent player through for years

[Exiled_red]

And of course El Zhar has been getting games, Plessis has had a few as well.

Wasn't it Rafa who gave Neil Mellor his chances as well?