Tonights latest Scores

[Shaggy]

Again I find myself annoyed by the coverage of their hopeless defeat last night.

Every single headline/article/report reads:

"Inexperienced United side slip to defeat"

"Youthful United..."

"United kids in meaningless defeat..."

What the ****? Their starting XI included Foster (same age as Reina?), Neville, Vidic, Brown, £17m Anderson and Ji Sung Park, and they were supplemented by three subs - Evra, Owen and Carrick.

So over half of the starting XI were not youth players. The other so-caled 'kids' were Rafael, full international Gibson, Macheda, Welbeck and Obertan.

[Guest]

Again I find myself annoyed by the coverage of their hopeless defeat last night.

Every single headline/article/report reads:

"Inexperienced United side slip to defeat"

"Youthful United..."

"United kids in meaningless defeat..."

What the ****? Their starting XI included Foster (same age as Reina?), Neville, Vidic, Brown, £17m Anderson and Ji Sung Park, and they were supplemented by three subs - Evra, Owen and Carrick.

So over half of the starting XI were not youth players. The other so-caled 'kids' were Rafael, full international Gibson, Macheda, Welbeck and Obertan.

I stopped reading newspapers and watching sport news mate. I'm even contemplating watching our matches with chinese commentary.

[dww]

Again I find myself annoyed by the coverage of their hopeless defeat last night.

Every single headline/article/report reads:

"Inexperienced United side slip to defeat"

"Youthful United..."

"United kids in meaningless defeat..."

What the ****? Their starting XI included Foster (same age as Reina?), Neville, Vidic, Brown, £17m Anderson and Ji Sung Park, and they were supplemented by three subs - Evra, Owen and Carrick.

So over half of the starting XI were not youth players. The other so-caled 'kids' were Rafael, full international Gibson, Macheda, Welbeck and Obertan.

It's one of those things though - success buys you immunity from a lot of criticism. The qualified the result of the game was more or less irrelevant. It is infuriating that we are not given leeway for a poor performance against Debrecen due to the context of it not being in our hands but in the bigger picture it was another poor game in a run of poor games after a season in which for all the good things we didn't win a trophy.

I do wish people would stop making excuses for Foster though - he is old enough that people should judge him as a fully former keeper but both in a United and England context he seems to get treated as if he were a 16 year old just breaking through.

To be fair those young players are far from experienced and most have been developed for the most part at United. Although it has to be said that having a manger with complete control of the development pipeline has been a key factor for them. It is that sort of consequence of a consistent management structure that I feel people often under value.

[PTP]

It's one of those things though - success buys you immunity from a lot of criticism. The qualified the result of the game was more or less irrelevant. It is infuriating that we are not given leeway for a poor performance against Debrecen due to the context of it not being in our hands but in the bigger picture it was another poor game in a run of poor games after a season in which for all the good things we didn't win a trophy.

I do wish people would stop making excuses for Foster though - he is old enough that people should judge him as a fully former keeper but both in a United and England context he seems to get treated as if he were a 16 year old just breaking through.

To be fair those young players are far from experienced and most have been developed for the most part at United. Although it has to be said that having a manger with complete control of the development pipeline has been a key factor for them. It is that sort of consequence of a consistent management structure that I feel people often under value.

maybe moving away from the topic, but regarding your last paragraph - that sum's it up perfect for me. The first thing I thought of when i read shaggy's post and in particular the line about the youth players, was how do we compare!

with regards the list of youth or fringe or reserves or whatever they are, forgetting about money! - just look at that list compared to say our similar list of players at that level.

United have
Rafael, - full back
Gibson, - midfielder
Macheda - Striker
Welbeck - Striker
Obertan - Winger

Who have now either featured for united in the premier league, the champions league, carling cup etc

For arguements sake - on paper, our similar players in terms of development and standing within the first XI

Insua - Full back
Spearing - Midfielder
Ngog - Striker
El Zhar - Winger
And anyone out of Darby/Kelly/Plessis/Eccleston.


Other than Insua over Rafael - I would take the scum list over our list anytime. In fact, i do like insua and ngog - but if i was offered the choice right now of one list or the other - with our squad, i would go for the united list, purely for macheda, wellbeck and obertan who imo as a group of three are streets ahead of what we have.

Not sure what my point is here though, just kinda grumbling to myself in my head

[Shaggy]

Really? I think Obertan's crap and couldn't get into Lorient's team last season, Welbeck is crap and Macheda is living off one goal (two if you include a complete fluke at Sunderland) and has done absolutely nothing since.

[Mattshark]

Really? I think Obertan's crap and couldn't get into Lorient's team last season, Welbeck is crap and Macheda is living off one goal (two if you include a complete fluke at Sunderland) and has done absolutely nothing since.

Where as N'gog has become a scoring machine.

[PTP]

Really? I think Obertan's crap and couldn't get into Lorient's team last season, Welbeck is crap and Macheda is living off one goal (two if you include a complete fluke at Sunderland) and has done absolutely nothing since.

hmm - maybe it's just me, i am in a particularly bad mood today as I am back in work after a week off, ****ed off, and utterly depressed with how ****e liverpool are, that to be honest, even Accrington Stanley Youth looks more favourable than ours!

but I do like ngog, the point i was kinda trying to make is - ngog should be in a similar position to Macheda/Wellback - fringe player gaining experiencing here and there and popping up with goals every now and then making people think - oooh that ngog looks good - as opposed to the position he finds himself in, as pretty much 2nd choice striker, carrying the burden off no torres and under immense pressure, so the odd quiet game he will have (which will happen and does happen to any young player coming through) people will jump oon him and say he isn't good enough.

But yeah - right now we are wank, and we have one class injured striker - One good attacking mid in the middle who is unfit (gerrard) and one attacking mid who can cover the wings unfit (yossi) one young lad coming into the side (ngog) and then three or four, mediocre at best other attacking options (riera/kuyt/babel/voroning) -

the dark, sad, depressing black hole I find myself in this dim, depressing and dark Novemember afternoon, means that i'd kill a rabbit with my bare heads if we could have Wellbeck, Obertan and Macheda to throw into the mix and freshen up our squad

[red g]

Really? I think Obertan's crap and couldn't get into Lorient's team last season, Welbeck is crap and Macheda is living off one goal (two if you include a complete fluke at Sunderland) and has done absolutely nothing since.

wellbeck has looked good on other occasions but looked ****e on wednesday.
but him and macheda are a couple of years younger than ngog

[Rich]

I think Wellback could become a decent player, not seen anything in Macheda and Obertan to think they'll be world beaters.

[dww]

Really? I think Obertan's crap and couldn't get into Lorient's team last season, Welbeck is crap and Macheda is living off one goal (two if you include a complete fluke at Sunderland) and has done absolutely nothing since.

I'm not sure how good I think a lot of them are but there is a weight of numbers of United of players who are well enough developed to be exposed at first team level. For me it is the extra depth it gives their squad - the players don't have to be world beaters just capable of either playing a defined role when needed or stepping up in the league cup. It takes a lot of weight off the shoulders of the first team. Also having the numbers increases the chance of players like O'Shea being developed - no one thinks he is a world beater but he has been a hugely valuable team/squad member in recent years.

We are beginning now to see the first products of Rafa's investment in youth players but it will take a number of years before we are at the same position as United in my view. If we get in another manager who either isn't interested in developing players or has a different philosophy we could end up setting ourselves back another few years.

It's one possible argument for a director of football type role which focussed purely on the levels below the first team - aimed to be genuinely long term and to have a hand in appointing any new managers but to work in tandem with the manager with only players moves between the youth/development setup and the first team a matter of joint responsibility.

[Guest]

I'm not sure how good I think a lot of them are but there is a weight of numbers of United of players who are well enough developed to be exposed at first team level. For me it is the extra depth it gives their squad - the players don't have to be world beaters just capable of either playing a defined role when needed or stepping up in the league cup. It takes a lot of weight off the shoulders of the first team. Also having the numbers increases the chance of players like O'Shea being developed - no one thinks he is a world beater but he has been a hugely valuable team/squad member in recent years.

We are beginning now to see the first products of Rafa's investment in youth players but it will take a number of years before we are at the same position as United in my view. If we get in another manager who either isn't interested in developing players or has a different philosophy we could end up setting ourselves back another few years.

It's one possible argument for a director of football type role which focussed purely on the levels below the first team - aimed to be genuinely long term and to have a hand in appointing any new managers but to work in tandem with the manager with only players moves between the youth/development setup and the first team a matter of joint responsibility.

Kenny Dalglish has been appointed to perform that role if I'm right?

[zimbo]

I'm not sure how good I think a lot of them are but there is a weight of numbers of United of players who are well enough developed to be exposed at first team level. For me it is the extra depth it gives their squad - the players don't have to be world beaters just capable of either playing a defined role when needed or stepping up in the league cup. It takes a lot of weight off the shoulders of the first team. Also having the numbers increases the chance of players like O'Shea being developed - no one thinks he is a world beater but he has been a hugely valuable team/squad member in recent years.

We are beginning now to see the first products of Rafa's investment in youth players but it will take a number of years before we are at the same position as United in my view. If we get in another manager who either isn't interested in developing players or has a different philosophy we could end up setting ourselves back another few years.

It's one possible argument for a director of football type role which focussed purely on the levels below the first team - aimed to be genuinely long term and to have a hand in appointing any new managers but to work in tandem with the manager with only players moves between the youth/development setup and the first team a matter of joint responsibility.

In fairness, I think our reserves are already perfectly capable of losing to Besiktas, so perhaps the gap isn't that wide after all.

[tiktu]

In fairness, I think our reserves are already perfectly capable of losing to Besiktas, so perhaps the gap isn't that wide after all.