Ferguson

[Marky]

Any Liverpool fan would gladly swap United's season to date for ours.

They're 2 points off first place in the Prem, in the last 16 of the Champions League
and in a Carling Cup semi-final...not bad eh?

[Fivex]

Nicked from RAWK:

Quote from: shanklyboy on Yesterday at 11:53:59 PM

I think when the whole of the media report the same thing we have to take notice.
2 defeats in the last 6 league games.
A disgraceful F.A Cup performance against a lower league side, who in all honesty should be simply brushed aside.
Strange team selections, formations and tactics. Bizarre substitutions.
The total reliance on 2 players.
Highly paid, very expensive players not putting the effort in.
Losing a key player to Madrid and his replacement not being fit to lace his boots......why didn't he start in the F.A Cup?
The constant moaning about referees is now reaching an embarrassing point.
Ex Liverpool players, who were finished years ago coming to simply make the numbers up.
Being laughed at from the other end of the M62.

I know injuries have to be taken into account but in all honesty that's no excuse.It's obvious that the players don't want to play for the manager or for the Red shirt.....hard to take I know but it's plain for all to see.
It's easy to blame the Yanks but I'm afraid that doesn't excuse what's happening on the pitch.

Things are just not right..................at Manchester United.

- Very clever. However what's his point?

[Lee]

Any chance of the FA looking into this and giving him the extra two matches that were suspended from his previous run in with a referee?

FA say that they're not taking any action. Absolute joke

[Exiled_red]

FA say that they're not taking any action. Absolute joke

FFS What a joke

[Lee]

FFS What a joke

Sick isn't it mate? **** all consistancy

[Exiled_red]

Sick isn't it mate? **** all consistancy

Totally. Just out of curiousity how or who decided what is worthy of investigating??

[Lee]

Totally. Just out of curiousity how or who decided what is worthy of investigating??

Ferguson

[red g]

Totally. Just out of curiousity how or who decided what is worthy of investigating??

hercule poirot

[Shaggy]

Manchester United lack warriors like Steve Bruce, Bryan Robson and Roy Keane.

That’s the assessment of United legend Lou Macari in the wake of their FA Cup humiliation against Leeds.

Macari was at Old Trafford on Sunday to witness United’s worst FA Cup embarrassment for 26 years in his role as a pundit for the club's TV channel, and claims Wayne Rooney was the only player who had that dogs of war attitude.

The Scot says Rooney’s team-mates lacked the passion which was the hallmark of Ferguson’s great teams of the past.

“In the past, United had guys like Steve Bruce, Roy Keane, Bryan Robson and Mark Hughes, who would literally go to war in order to win a football match,” said Macari.

“I don't see many of those characters around now.

“People talk about Wayne Rooney, and quite rightly so, but he sticks out like a sore thumb. The other guys did not stick out like a sore thumb. They regarded it as part of their job.”

Macari is disillusioned by the new generation of players coming through and feels they are over-hyped.

He feels they are lauded as stars before they have even done anything in the game, which is why they lack the drive of a Keane or a Bruce.

”Football is so big these days players get built up to be something they are not," he said.

"They are told how good they are, when actually they have achieved very little.

"At Manchester United there are three players who, for as long as they live, will be able to turn around, say they gave everything and put their medals on the table to show how good they were.

"But how many Ryan Giggs' are there? Or Paul Scholes'? Or Gary Nevilles?

"I see a lot of football, and I like to think I can spot a player. But I could watch matches for two years and still might not come up with anyone who is truly world class, other than the small handful we all know about."

[Nicey]

Any Liverpool fan would gladly swap United's season to date for ours.

They're 2 points off first place in the Prem, in the last 16 of the Champions League
and in a Carling Cup semi-final...not bad eh?

Like ****ing clockwork

[Marky]

Constructive once again,what have i said that's wrong?

[red g]

Constructive once again,what have i said that's wrong?

reality bites

[dww]

I guess a couple of questions come out of this:
1/ Do people think that there is a genuine long term decline at play for United?

I'm not sure - while it is clear that the team/squad that won the last three titles and the CL needs to be rebuilt there is a lot of good materials to start with - in the da Silva twins, Evans, Gibson and Obertan they have players with the makings of stepping up. They have a lot of experience about the place and a number of solid back up players who can fill in while rebuilding takes place (Brown, O'Shea etc). On the other hand for the first time in a long time they don't have the cash to bring in the one or two players who could really enhance the side as they have in the past.

Berbatov for me doesn't have the attitude to be worthy of a place in a top team in the modern PL. He is a throw back to a time when class without application would always out. Increased athleticism has reduced the efficacy of his type of player. It'll be interesting to see if they consider selling him in order to finance squad rejuvenation in the summer.

Obviously the open nature of the PL means they will have a shot this year but the next year or two could be a real struggle for them. As it probably will be for us.

2/ Is there a genuine issue with time keeping?

I don't mean that United don't get enough (and to some extent I would like to ignore the problem of whether they get too much either). The issue for me is whether we get enough playing time and whether time wasted or taken up by injuries etc. is taken into account accurately. To me it seems that the time added on is fairly consistently measured (Fergie time not withstanding) but I do get the impression that it is under estimated.

[Exiled_red]

1/ Do people think that there is a genuine long term decline at play for United?

For a number of years I have kept looking at their team and think that the quality of the players they have is going down, maybe this is because I am not giving certain players enough credit, but when I look through their team I don't see that many players who have world class ability (I know that sounds crazy) who can perform consistently. What they do have though is a a team efficiency and a winning mentality. I think they are an example of a team that is greater than the sum of it's parts, everyone has a job to do and they do it. They have had so much success they believe that they are unbeatable, and that gives them an edge.

2/ Is there a genuine issue with time keeping?

I'm not sure really, I think that this is one of the issue generally that the match officials are most consistent on. I believe the rules state that there should be 30secs added at the end of the half per substitution and per goal, plus any stoppages for injuries. Typically there are between 4 and 6 subs made in a match which should give 2-3mins and say 2 goals on average, typically giving 3-4mins plus any time added for when the physio comes on, usually you'll see ~4mins of added time which seems right.

The Scum-Leeds game had 6 subs I think and no goals in the second half, and I can only remember the physio coming on once so 5 mins seems about right (perhaps even a little generous(?) )

[dww]

For a number of years I have kept looking at their team and think that the quality of the players they have is going down, maybe this is because I am not giving certain players enough credit, but when I look through their team I don't see that many players who have world class ability (I know that sounds crazy) who can perform consistently. What they do have though is a a team efficiency and a winning mentality. I think they are an example of a team that is greater than the sum of it's parts, everyone has a job to do and they do it. They have had so much success they believe that they are unbeatable, and that gives them an edge.

I kind of agree that they now lack the number of top players - I think you could number Rooney, Giggs (still) and a fit Ferdinand as genuinely top rank players with Vidic, Evra, van der Sar and Scholes as now in the group below. After that they have a lot of very good players in specific roles but very few players you would say are definitely streets better than players in the Spurs or Man City squads, say.

That said players like Carrick and Berbatov have peak performances that many of the players at other teams would dream of it's just that the whole team setup has to be right to get that out of them.

In a lot of ways I think there are a lot of analogies between their squad and our own. the big difference between the two being the experience and resultant self confidence that comes from a long term run of top level success.