Is it time to limit foreigners in the Prem?

[dww]

I think the fact is that all of the big european leagues from some extent suffer from the fact that players stay in their home countries. Relatively few Spanish, Italian or English play in leagues other than their own because it is easier to stay in your home country and there is no enormous incentive to move abroad as these leagues all pay very good wages and probably offer the best chance of getting into your national side (look how McManaman's England career went downhill despite his success at Real Madrid).

I agree with your points about general insularity of the british mind set but I think there are two other factors you have neglected. Firstly until recently british youth players were so far behind continental players technically the reason for noone coming looking for them was that they were not good enough. Secondly we can offer professional contracts at a younger age than most European countries meaning that it is far easier for us to nab young talent off other countries than it is for them to do it to us.

[WILF]

dww , I didn't realise that we could offer contracts earlier than other leagues, thanks for the info.

I think there are more Spanish players abroad than English/British ( I haven't actually checked this though)

Italians I agree about, and mentioned , although I think if someone could be bothered to go over the last 50 years and check all the Italian players who played abroad it would be more than Brits (but it would be a tedious process)

[dww]

I would guess you would be right but some really random Brits (Robert Ullathorne, Vinny Samways) have gone abroad it's just easy to forget. There was also a young striker from Middlesborough who went to Juve, but was farmed out to a feeder team and I can't remember his name.

[WILF]

True it is not only big name players, but I have a terrible memory

[Red_Polo]

Listen RP - Let me put this very simply : IMO there are too many foreign players in our league. Some of them are top drawer and are more than welcome; but there are loads of them throughout the league who I believe are no better than what we already have and are stifling the growth of our home grown players. THAT is my opinion ok. If you don't like it then tough - coz I'm certainly not going to change it.
My perspective is purely a footballing one - although you seem to think otherwise as this is the second time you've mentioned 'foreigners taking british jobs'. If you wish to discuss non-footballing issues regarding nationalities and borders mate then you've come to the wrong bloke because I have absolutely no interest in discussing topics such as these with you or anybody else.
I hope that is clear enough for you to understand. Now if you will excuse me...........

H

You are extremely naive not to see the link with nationalism if you're talking about 'too many foreigners' and 'our country'. Can you not see that the two situations are completely analagous?

-Too many foreigners over here taking British jobs
-Too many foreign players over here stifling British players development

Little or no difference, you've just confined it to football. There is no good reason you can give me as to why a foreign player should be discriminated against in favour of a British one. The reasoning behind this argument can only boil down to nationalism.

[Howard_lfc]

dww , I didn't realise that we could offer contracts earlier than other leagues, thanks for the info.

process)

I think there is a difference of when you can offer contracts to youngsters: barca got around this rule somewhat when they brough Messi over from Argentina on a 'training/youth' contract or something; then after a while got him to sign a professional contract.

I think that's right anyway - but I'm not 100% on the details.

H

[dww]

There are obvious links between the position on foreign footballers and jobs in general but I think the link is more nuanced than you suggest. The main reason for this is:

Representative football: A large part of football both at the lowest youth level and the highest international level is about teams which represent an area. It is part of football culture and while at a certain level is nationalist I don't see the problem in wanting to have as good a team to support at national level as possible. The fact is at this level the limit on recruitment is defined by a players nationality and if you support England, it is natural for you to desire that the pool of players to pick from is as big and as good quality as possible.

I disagree with Howard_lfc about the idea of limits on foreign (see much of the rest of this thread) but I think it is slightly unfair to not accept that a delineation can be drawn in this case between the area of football and the rest of society.

[Red_Polo]

I dont understand why you are saying that average foreign players are restricting oppertunities for English players. Surely if the English players were good enough, they would be signed instead of the average Foreign players?

...is exactly the point. Players are signed on merit rather than place of birth and that's the way it should be. The only major thing that currently skews that is the economics, but limiting foreign players would make that even worse as you pointed out.

[Red_Polo]

There are obvious links between the position on foreign footballers and jobs in general but I think the link is more nuanced than you suggest. The main reason for this is:

Representative football: A large part of football both at the lowest youth level and the highest international level is about teams which represent an area. It is part of football culture and while at a certain level is nationalist I don't see the problem in wanting to have as good a team to support at national level as possible. The fact is at this level the limit on recruitment is defined by a players nationality and if you support England, it is natural for you to desire that the pool of players to pick from is as big and as good quality as possible.

I disagree with Howard_lfc about the idea of limits on foreign (see much of the rest of this thread) but I think it is slightly unfair to not accept that a delineation can be drawn in this case between the area of football and the rest of society.

I totally agree that there are identity issues in football that there aren't in most other jobs. However as I pointed out, we are Liverpool not England, so any identity issue should revolve around whether there are enough scousers coming through, whether the players we have do things the Liverpool way, and not whether we have 'too many foreigners'. So I don't see how nationalism need infest our thought, particularly since our identity is so apart from English nationalism.

[dww]

To be honest I pretty much totally agree with you.

However the issue remains a pertinant one for the FA as it is their job to look after the England team and make sure it is as good as it can be. As supporters of LFC there is absolutely no reason to want a limit on foreigners but some people (and in the population at large many people) will support England more than club teams. For them the only factor at play is how good is the England team.

I think that the standard of English players has risen due to the competition from foreign players. I would say that homegrown players in terms of local youth bought through by a club is probably the cheapest form of player for a team and I firmly believe that this counter acts the additional cost of buying english players once they have developed. So in my opinion if they were good enough more english players would play and the fact that there are average foreigners in the league is a result of a combination of their different footballing culture not suiting our style of play and the fact that for years english players have in general been worse than average foreign players.

[Howard_lfc]

To be honest I pretty much totally agree with you.

So in my opinion if they were good enough more english players would play and the fact that there are average foreigners in the league is a result of a combination of their different footballing culture not suiting our style of play and the fact that for years english players have in general been worse than average foreign players.

.

The reason there are so many foreigners is that the managers over here would rather spend a few bob on some foreign player than stick his neck on the block and attempt to nurture and develop a young british player so that he becomes a regular first XI player. It's the quick fix solution brought on by the pressure of the modern game and the fact that the game is now a results business. Add this quick fix - to the over-priced british players and THAT is why we have so many 'non-british' players. Also - the fact we have so many foreign coaches now - who know the european scene so well - simply has to be a factor; Rafa being a case in point.

On friday I asked 3 blokes in work one question: Are there too many foreigners in the premiership? Withoiut hesitation - each of them said yes almost straight away. So there you have it. Proof if it was ever needed!!

H