What next for England's Golden Generation ?

[IN_RAFA_WE_TRUST]

Malg,what makes the soldiers heroes?
The taliban pose no threat to the british isles.

[MrMichael]

Ozil, Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Merterzaker, Klose and Podolski have all been around and done it a club level.

Lahm and the Pig Sticker have been top, dare I say, world class players in their positions for several years.

Lahn especially. Best pure full back in the world for me, has been for a while.

[dww]

Lahn especially. Best pure full back in the world for me, has been for a while.

You'd put him in a category above Maicon and Cole?

[badpiggy]

I think it's a bit of a media strangeness that Joachim Low hardly gets mentioned at all in Germany's success, with a team with only a few world class players(Ozil maybe, Lahm and Schweinsteiger), a possibly suspect defence and a history of grinding it out.

[sean_lfc]

*gets out of his hole*

Hello,

seeing as I'm half German, half British, I've been analysing this football malarchy for years now and had deep thoughts about it.

First off, when I lived in Germany, I hated supporting the Germans, because I had Germans around me all the time and it got to me, anyways, that's another story. When I moved to England I could watch them from afar and truly appreciate the football they play and my roots.

Here's my opinion on why England have consistently failed:

It's an amalgamation of several different areas which has and still does lead to England's demise. It's less of a specific area one can address, one has to look at the whole picture, which stems from culture, society all the way to the FA/DFB, press, players, managers, youth development etc.

By and large it's about mentality. The Germans as a country and as a people are extremely meticulous, this goes all the way from building houses with proper concrete and 40cm thick bricks each side to 90 degree walls, etc. The Germans love doing things 100%. The motto is: If we're going to do anything, let's do it to the maximum of our potential, in an extremely efficient and hard-working manner, "to the bitter end".

Take this country: Housing is shockingly poor, concrete doesn't exist, I hear my neighbours walking around in their house, sneezing, things like that. Streets are poorly constructed, everything is make-shift, nothing is solid. Football is about money, and money only, you have players on excruciatingly ridiculous wages, because even the average joe can make loads of money playing for Wigan, where's the fight?

The same, in my opinion, goes for the whole countries, whether it be sports and sports development and opportunity, education, medical services, you name it. The Germans just are better and more detailed and 'proper' about everything they do. This is the same for football. In Germany, everything is so deeply prepared, ingrained into the minds, that this winning, being-the-best mentality can really come to the fore. The English (team/press/country) see themselves through this 'We're the ****ing best, Premier League best in the world, 2 world wars and 1 world cup, plus we invented the ****ing game' as the 'Holier than thou' purveyors of the sport, and there is a 'We are owed success' mentality about the team.

In Germany, this isn't the case, they work bloody hard and know that you cannot kid yourself and the only way of getting success is by bleeding and hard hard hard work.

I was speaking to a Portuguese friend of mine and he said 'The reason I dislike England is not so much the team, but the whole hype the country puts before every tournament, this 'We're gonna win it this time, we're the best', the press bigging up the team unrealistically and the fans responding in kind, no other country in the world does this!', and having thought about it retrospectively, no other country actually does do that in that shape or form, without having the back-up of a top top team which has performed (such as Brazil, for instance, who can put their money were their mouth is).

And I think as long as this mentality is present, England will never ever ever ever win anything. It's this failure at being humble, from the players right down to the managers, the press especially, which will hinder England's progress as a footballing nation, internationally. And unfortunately, the whole system is leaking and ****ed, the press will continue to write gob****e, the people will continue to read it and so will the players. And that's why England is destined to failure and that's why Germany does so much better, because they are more humble, they know that you need a solid foundation for anything to work (such as proper concrete housing), and which is why they continuously overachieve even with 'mediocre' players, because they know what it takes to achieve something and it's not about WAGS, Heat magazine, glitz, glamour and money, it's about hard work, discipline, determination and most of all pride in wearing the shirt and truly representing your country, your family and friends, who care not about your money and your status but your happiness as a human.

Anyways, dunno where this is all leading, but I had to get it off my chest.

[Frenchie]

*gets out of his hole*

Hello,

seeing as I'm half German, half British, I've been analysing this football malarchy for years now and had deep thoughts about it.

First off, when I lived in Germany, I hated supporting the Germans, because I had Germans around me all the time and it got to me, anyways, that's another story. When I moved to England I could watch them from afar and truly appreciate the football they play and my roots.

Here's my opinion on why England have consistently failed:

It's an amalgamation of several different areas which has and still does lead to England's demise. It's less of a specific area one can address, one has to look at the whole picture, which stems from culture, society all the way to the FA/DFB, press, players, managers, youth development etc.

By and large it's about mentality. The Germans as a country and as a people are extremely meticulous, this goes all the way from building houses with proper concrete and 40cm thick bricks each side to 90 degree walls, etc. The Germans love doing things 100%. The motto is: If we're going to do anything, let's do it to the maximum of our potential, in an extremely efficient and hard-working manner, "to the bitter end".

Take this country: Housing is shockingly poor, concrete doesn't exist, I hear my neighbours walking around in their house, sneezing, things like that. Streets are poorly constructed, everything is make-shift, nothing is solid. Football is about money, and money only, you have players on excruciatingly ridiculous wages, because even the average joe can make loads of money playing for Wigan, where's the fight?

The same, in my opinion, goes for the whole countries, whether it be sports and sports development and opportunity, education, medical services, you name it. The Germans just are better and more detailed and 'proper' about everything they do. This is the same for football. In Germany, everything is so deeply prepared, ingrained into the minds, that this winning, being-the-best mentality can really come to the fore. The English (team/press/country) see themselves through this 'We're the ****ing best, Premier League best in the world, 2 world wars and 1 world cup, plus we invented the ****ing game' as the 'Holier than thou' purveyors of the sport, and there is a 'We are owed success' mentality about the team.

In Germany, this isn't the case, they work bloody hard and know that you cannot kid yourself and the only way of getting success is by bleeding and hard hard hard work.

I was speaking to a Portuguese friend of mine and he said 'The reason I dislike England is not so much the team, but the whole hype the country puts before every tournament, this 'We're gonna win it this time, we're the best', the press bigging up the team unrealistically and the fans responding in kind, no other country in the world does this!', and having thought about it retrospectively, no other country actually does do that in that shape or form, without having the back-up of a top top team which has performed (such as Brazil, for instance, who can put their money were their mouth is).

And I think as long as this mentality is present, England will never ever ever ever win anything. It's this failure at being humble, from the players right down to the managers, the press especially, which will hinder England's progress as a footballing nation, internationally. And unfortunately, the whole system is leaking and ****ed, the press will continue to write gob****e, the people will continue to read it and so will the players. And that's why England is destined to failure and that's why Germany does so much better, because they are more humble, they know that you need a solid foundation for anything to work (such as proper concrete housing), and which is why they continuously overachieve even with 'mediocre' players, because they know what it takes to achieve something and it's not about WAGS, Heat magazine, glitz, glamour and money, it's about hard work, discipline, determination and most of all pride in wearing the shirt and truly representing your country, your family and friends, who care not about your money and your status but your happiness as a human.

Anyways, dunno where this is all leading, but I had to get it off my chest.

Have to agree with you..

Ken Livingstone said the other day that the lack of good British players coming through is down to the abolition of competitive schools football destroyed by the PC brigade.

I tend to agree......

[Neil Young]

Have to agree with you..

Ken Livingstone said the other day that the lack of good British players coming through is down to the abolition of competitive schools football destroyed by the PC brigade.

I tend to agree......

I can't believe Ken Livingstone would say something so laughably simplistic... Hang on, what am I saying?

So selling off the playing fields had nothing to do with it I suppose.

I thought Sean's post was excellent - it's far more complicated and deeper than any single initiative explanation.

[dww]

Good post sean.

I would to some degree take exception to the idea that we thought we were 'going to win it this time' before this particular World Cup. We did have an inflated idea of the teams quality but at the same time it was much less jingoistic and bombastic than normal with many people questioning if we were anywhere near the level of the likes of pre-tournament favourites Brazil and Spain.

That said I think Heskey raised an interesting point recently - that the under age England sides are performing very well at present. So perhaps the gloom that many see is a simple over reaction to current failings.

There are definitely lessons to be learned from this exit and from the systems in place elsewhere but it would be worth reviewing what is actually happening at levels beneath the national team. The PL squad regulations for example may help to develop the promising players who are succeeding against their peers at youth level.

[dww]

FA ready for battle with Premier League clubs over release of young players

• Disagreement about squad for youth tournament
• Sir Trevor Brooking says England must take best team

* Dominic Fifield in Cape Town and Jill Treanor
* guardian.co.uk, Sunday 4 July 2010 23.01 BST


Sir Trevor Brooking Sir Trevor Brooking is determined that England take their strongest possible squad to the European Under-19 Championship. Photograph: Phil Cole/Getty Images

A row is threatening to erupt between the Football Association and leading Premier League clubs with England set to be denied up to five key players for the forthcoming European Under-19 Championship.

The senior side's premature elimination from the World Cup finals has drawn the focus on to the development of young talent but the FA is concerned that a number of top-flight clubs will withdraw players selected for the finals in France and, as a result, prevent them gaining valuable tournament experience.

The Under-19s event starts next week with the national coach, Noel Blake, hoping to include the likes of Aston Villa's Nathan Delfouneso, the Blackburn Rovers centre-half Phil Jones and potentially up to four youngsters from Tottenham Hotspur in the squad to be announced this week. Sir Dave Richards, the chairman of Club England, had written to all the clubs involved asking them to prioritise the release of players before the official start to the new domestic campaign.

Yet Blackburn have indicated they want Jones, who made 12 first‑team appearances for the Ewood Park club last term, to participate in their pre-season tours of Austria and Australia. Tottenham, too, have written back to the FA querying the release of Steven Caulker, Andros Townsend, Ryan Mason and Dean Parrett for the championship, given that it comes so early into their pre-season programme.

That has prompted Sir Trevor Brooking, the FA's director of football development, and Blake to express fears that England's chances at the finals will be hampered and the players denied a rare opportunity to play on such a stage. "We have a European Championship which will be a fantastic experience," said Brooking. "The Premier and Football League clubs said they would support us so clubs would release them, and yet now there are a few whose clubs want to take them on pre-season trips.

"We have five lads we might have issues with. They will never get that tournament experience against quality opposition otherwise. Phil Jones, the Blackburn lad and a first-team player, who is outstanding, will be a key player if we are going to do any good in that tournament. We have Nathan Delfouneso, a key player, and we want him released by Aston Villa."

There were similar problems last summer, with Spurs' Danny Rose and Victor Moses, who was then at Crystal Palace, withdrawn by their club sides. The England party are due to meet on 12 July and will travel to Normandy three days later for group games against Austria, Holland and France. The other countries participating in the finals are Spain, Portugal, Italy and Croatia. "With all the other countries, there won't even be an issue," said Brooking. "They will be released."

A party of 20 players took part in a three-day Under-19s training camp ahead of the finals, with Arsenal, Manchester United, Fuham, Chelsea, West Ham United, Newcastle United and Sunderland the other Premier League clubs with players who are involved. Spurs intend to speak to the FA this week to decide what is in their players' interests, with the other top‑flight clubs expected to do likewise.

Meanwhile, Nationwide will announce this week that it has opted against renewing its £20m sponsorship deal of the England team, leaving the FA to continue negotiations with other interested parties with their negotiating position somewhat weakened. The building society had backed the England set-up since 1999 but will not seek to extend the package beyond the end of this month.

A Nationwide spokesman said tonight: "We've had 11 seasons and it has helped raise our profile with new and existing customers. The current sponsorship deal comes to an end at the end of July and is unlikely to be renewed."

[BillobShaisley]

Malg,what makes the soldiers heroes?
The taliban pose no threat to the british isles.

This is one for the library. But in a word. Nieve

[Shaggy]

Who's she?

[Exiled_red]

I think the timing of the U19s tournament is poor. The best kids at this age level will probably have picked up a few games experience at club level and be looking to establish themselves in the team or at least match day squad on a regular basis. Preseason games give them a chance to do that, chances such as these are likely to be limited (especially at top clubs). It is probably more in the players interests to establish themselves at club level than to have a good U19 tournament.

The appropriate time for such events IMO is the same time as the World Cup, but UEFA would struggle to get sponsorship revenue etc as the World Cup would over shadow it, which is why they won't move it.

[Neil Young]

They should play the U19s tournament when the players are younger.

[Fernandinho]

is it a tournement that happens every year? why dont they just plan it for the years when the WC isnt on

[Neil Young]

is it a tournement that happens every year? why dont they just plan it for the years when the WC isnt on

Because every other year the players will be too old.